Acer: Critics ‘Unfair’ to Windows 8

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znod

I predict the Win8 will be successful on a decent scale only with those who don't want to compute much beyond the phone or tablet level. I play with 8, but only because I like to know what's out there and to advise others. It would be ludicrous for any business to adopt 8. On an informal poll I have seen, only about 10% use the Metro-style apps to a significant extent--with the rest split between never use them and occasionally use them. I am in the never use them class. While 8 has some good features, the cost of taking advantage of them is too high WRT to efficiency. The more glaring defects on 8 could easily be fixed, but MS is too short sighted to do so. For 8 to be successful, MS needs to restore an improved version of the start menu, provide the option of starting directly to the Desktop, and integrate some of the better features of the new interface into the control panel, desktop icons, etc. MS also needs to return to selling a full install Retail version for individuals, although the system builder software would do to some extent assuming what many maintain is true--that an individual considering purchase can define system builder as one that installs the system builder software for own use on one, and only one, owned computer at a time. Under this view, it should be clear that a system builder could install the system builder software on a single partition, a partition related to a multi-boot, or via a local virtual machine.

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whr4usa

there's absolutely no reason for a FPP with the previous 'Retail' licensing

"System Builder" licensing is actually its own entity not just a subset of OEM licensing available almost exclusively from NewEgg legally

...the only change from the unofficial semi-legal usage of retailed OEM copies and the legal, official system builder copies now is...well nothing.

...the only change between Windows 7 FPPs with Retail-specific licensing to the system builder product is they're nolonger Portable between systems, have limited Microsoft support, cost MUCH less and have no reinstall restrictions

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Mekan

It is not that Win 8 is hard to learn...it is that the interface is crap. It is forcing a tertiary interface that must be gotten through to start doing work in the real interface.

What you actually have is an application of active internet tiles and lightweight applications that you have to see and click through to get to your work. Yes there is a fine third party utility that avoids this, but is that something for an OS to boast about?

The only reason Metro is forced as the starting page for Win 8 OS is that MS is desperately trying to gain a toe hold in the phone/pad hardware as desktops and laptops decline. So in their wisdom they believe if you force all of those corporate desktop users to use a UI that is on all platforms you capture the market. They forgot that you can actually loose all OS markets using this thought process.

There are sociologists and psychologists that could have helped them realize this.

From what I can see the actual OS is a minor update to Win 7 and could have easily been an update as it brings no real new abilities to the table. It is all about the UI, or should I say UIs as there are three distinct UIs in the OS. And, if you are working heavily on the system you must navigate all three UIs to get the job done.

At one time we wanted to eliminate clicks...not anymore at the MS campus.

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whr4usa

"From what I can see..."

that says it all; read more please

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Hackworth1006

Microsoft needs to rename it Microsoft Tiles, keep it for tablets and smartphones, issue an apology, fire Ballmer, and then work like hell to release a real operating system for those of us who actually do real work on our systems.

Sorry, but I have no desire to navigate around the mess that is the-interface-formerly-known-as-Metro with all of its pointless "apps." I don't want that garbage on my work machine, be it my workstation or my laptop. I don't need or want all of those little craplets for bartending, charting stars, finding music lyrics, playing music or videos, shopping at Microsoft's store, or wasting time with Angry Birds.

Furthermore, touch capability is nearly useless for the precision work that my company does, and I daresay for many folks who actually use their machines to produce rather than simply to "consume content" and fart around on Facebook.

If Microsoft wants to release a consumer OS, that's fine. It was stupid, however, to throw its business/enterprise users under the bus. They could have at least released a Windows 8 Enterprise or Windows 8 Professional. (Oh, wait... they did, but it's got that Metro trash too.)

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whr4usa

no major OS Client release is intended to be utilized without its accompanying server product

Windows 8 has much to give business users via Server 2012

learn to read more

if the full extent of your complaint is the presence of touch-compatible GUI and an optional Store then you really need to reset your perspective instead of hampering your employer

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maxeeemum

@Hackworth1006

+1

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pastorbob

"Sorry, but I have no desire to navigate around the mess that is the-interface-formerly-known-as-Metro with all of its pointless "apps.""

Yeah, pressing that one key or making a single mouse click is really a pain in the butt isn't it? :-)

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Hackworth1006

Your reply is disingenuous and you know it. The problem is far more deply rooted than your simplistic answer implies. There is a lot more involved than simply telling someone to "click the Desktop tile and your problems disappear."

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pastorbob

Didn't mean to offend you but I just thought your comment I quoted was funny since it only takes one click (or key press) to drop the Start Screen out of sight.

But since you brought it up, I was referring to more than just the Desktop tile. And to what problems are you referring? On the Windows 8 Start Screen I have tiles for all of the same applications that I used under Windows 7. One click on any brings up my desired app and I use it in the same way I did under 7. I can still ALT-Tab between them, access the task bar if I so desire or if I want to I can use one of the Windows 8 apps I have installed. Windows key + the correct letter gives me quick access to any tool I need to use to manage my system. I just don't find Windows 8 difficult to navigate. To the contrary I find it easier in many respects.

So again I ask you, "What problems?" I understand personal tastes differ but some of the complaints I read about Windows 8 just plain do not hold up.

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whr4usa

+1

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RtDK

We bought my mother one of those new Lenovo Yoga convertible ultrabooks that can go between tablet form and laptop. Since she's completely computer illiterate, I'm always forced to set up all new machines in the household, and as such, I got to play around with Win8 and the hardware for awhile.

Being a semi-power user myself, I wasn't suddenly overwhelmed by the urge to switch from Win7 to the new OS. It's pretty, and once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy to use. The learning curve isn't "steep" by any means--once you get used to the Start screen, it's really not all that different from other Windows OSes.

That isn't to say it doesn't have its problems. Tracking down the Control Panel was a pain in the backside at first until I figured out where they hid it, and while it isn't a steep learning curve, there IS a learning curve. The touchscreen keyboard likes to autohide itself on startup when I tap the password input space. And I had an issue with removing McAfee so I could just switch back to the native security.

That being said, installing Firefox and Thunderbird were easy as they were in 7, pinning them to the Start screen was simple as it was before--the only problems really are the fact that the different email programs and web browsers need to catch up with the interface. IE10 is a good example of this. Everything on that browser is designed to be touch-friendly. Firefox is just your typical browser, and hasn't made the switch yet.

So yeah, a few issues, but Mom is very happy and impressed by it. I have no outstanding complaints about it. I'm not rushing to upgrade, but I wouldn't whine if it came with a new machine. This is coming from a guy who LIKED Vista, but preferred the familiarity of XP at the time. So I know how 8 compares to previous OSes pretty well.

Both the hardware and software need a little time to iron out the bugs, but ... then again, what operating system DOESN'T have an issue or three when it hits the market? For a casual consumer who uses their computer for email, web-browsing, and other basic things, Win8 will suit their needs VERY well, especially if they can switch between a tablet form and a laptop form--for lounging or on-the-go computing.

Microsoft needs to push this form factor and drive the cost down. Flexibility is always a good selling point.

So yeah, take my experience with a grain of salt. This is all just stuff I've observed. Your mileage may vary. If I can recommend one thing though--spring for a touchscreen if you want Win8. The mouse alone just won't cut it, I don't think.

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DocBogus

Wong is so Wong. Why should I wanna touch a notebook screen over the keyboard, for an action I can perform in a fraction of a second? Why should I do that when the desktop screen is at an optimal height, conveniently distant, making me project and raise my hand more than 16 inches for each move (and keeping it floating around)? Is the fad of mobile toys going to dictate the rules for productivity?

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petrol42

I upgraded my Lenovo X120e to Windows 8 and I am liking it so far. Microsoft made Win 8 pretty lightweight so it actually sped my X120e up a bit. I don't miss the Start button since launching and searching for the programs I need is easy with Win8. I really like the Metro interface but the familiar desktop is still there which is what I use most of the time since there aren't a lot of Windows 8 apps yet.

I could see what Microsoft is doing with Windows 8. It's a stepping stone to a more touch based interface which there's no denying is very intuitive. We're probably going to have to wait until Windows 9 to fully realize the vision that Microsoft has, or had since Sinofsky is gone.

Microsoft couldn't just rip the desktop away from the consumer since we're so use to it and all of our programs need the desktop to run so Windows 8 is a compromise between an ultra modern UI and supporting legacy software. I could see where the average consumer could get really confused between the desktop programs and the Microsoft Store apps but Microsoft needed to start somewhere. The Microsoft Store is the future of how we buy apps and as more and more developers start to adopt Microsoft Store app development, we're going to see less and less software on retail shelves. The Microsoft Store also adds to it's ecosystem and if done right, could surpass what Apple and Google have done. Since the Store is on every Windows 8 machine sold, and with PC laptops still outselling Apple laptops, it's a sure bet that the Microsoft Store is going to be well stocked with apps that have modern touch capabilities and are ready to be downloaded by the consumer in the not too distant future.

Apple has apps on OSX but you don't hear much about the apps on there as much as you do on iOS. It's the simple fact that OSX hasn't integrated their app store into the OS like Microsoft. Also, the Apple apps are more like programs you buy at a retail store and there's nothing special to them since there isn't touch integration on the Mac.

Touch is the future of Laptops and I wish my X120e had a touch screen. My next laptop is definitely going to be a Windows 8 machine with a Touchscreen. I'm looking at you, Sony Vaio duo 11!

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Hey.That_Dude

Wong is right. Touch Screen integration is going to trend in the future whether or not us power users like it.
But Mr. Wong... Windows 8 (PRO) IS still the sh*ttiest attempt to INTEGRATE TOUCH INTO THE DESKTOP. Notice the order!
What LOSE8 is, is an attempt for Microsoft developers to be lazy and act like everyone is rocking it in tablet form. IT DOESN'T attempt to augment what we already know and love about WIN7 with touch abilities and better hardware management. I look forward to an OS where touch, mouse, and keyboard all have a place and a time. Get working you lazy bums! In the mean time I'll continue to learn how to make my own OS mods and skins.

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whr4usa

"an attempt for Microsoft developers to be lazy"
...you obviously havn't read anything about the Windows Runtime!

"augment ... with touch abilities and better hardware management"
...yes it does - have you tried the desktop? ignore the startscreen and use taskbar pinning if you hate it so - or try StarDock Start8

"I look forward to an OS where touch, mouse, and keyboard all have a place and a time."
...you just described the 6.2.920x client

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maxeeemum

Of course Wong is going to say that he wants to sell Acer products. But the fact is Windows 8 is not being accepted or will be accepted by the average computer user. I believe Windows 8 is hurting all desktop/laptop sales. Even the Surface RT is not doing well.

Looks like Windows 7 will be the new XP for now. But it looks like Win8 will be short lived and Win9 is coming soon. Let's see if M$ can fix the mess they made.

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maxeeemum

If you choose to look at it that way!!!

So do you live to defend M$ or work for them!!!

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maxeeemum

Actually your multiple comments (14 this story) are pretty annoying young lady. I suggest you back it down a notch or 10.

Also coming back 5 or 6 days later with a bunch of comments when many have just moved on is sort of back door posting.

You may have IT training but if you don't put it in layman terms no one knows if you are telling the truth. I know some here are out there but I choose to ignore them and pick my battles. Just some advice and I hope this doesn't offend you.

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maxeeemum

You just don't get it do you!!!

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Peanut Fox

I don't think Acer has a lot of choice. If they can't sell you a device with Windows based software, what do they have to fall back on? Their amazingly average monitors?

It's sad. Windows 8's own competition is Windows 7.

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whr4usa

how's that sad? if true that'd mean Macintosh and ChromeOS are no competition and Microsoft is guaranteed marketshare regrowth which I'm certain they won't complain about haha

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Teeebs

Here's your Kool Aid. Drink up...

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pastorbob

Ditto to what Geek2012 said.

Been using it for two months. And as far as a steep learning curve, It took me longer to get the hang of Office 2007. I was using it like a pro in just a couple of days. And guess what? I don't have a touch device. It's on my desktop system with mouse and keyboard input only.

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whr4usa

+1

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Geek2012

I love how this website is intended for the super user, yet many of you are either to intellectually challenged or stubborn to use W8. I have been using it for 3 months and I have no issues doing anything. Quit your complaining and move on. Your argumentative behavior is not what Maximum PC users should have. If you think otherwise, perhaps you should join PC world's forum.. better yet, attend a seminar teaching senior citizens how to press a button to turn on their computer. Sheesh.

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znod

What silliness. I started using computers seriously (with a Kaypro and early Macs and PC's) probably before your were born. Go play with your phone or tablet. Maybe it even has a calculator for you to try to use.

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znod

Ditto

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Neufeldt2002

This web site is for everyone to enjoy who are enthusiasts about PC's and Tech in general. Name calling only makes you look like the one who is challenged.

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maxeeemum

@Neufeldt2002

+1

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whr4usa

+1

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Scatter

I don't dislike Windows 8 because of a learning curve. Its not that I don't know how to use it, it's that I don't LIKE to use it. Sure, a touch screen setup is great if you're using a tablet or phone but it really kind of sucks if you're using Windows on a normal PC without a touch screen. And even if I did I don't want to have to reach forward to click tiles to start my programs. I'm a lot for efficient and I much prefer to use my mouse.

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whr4usa

it is not "a touch screen setup" nor is it designed for today's tablets or phones

there's no such thing as a 'normal' PC or it isn't really a PERSONAL Computer

I'm all about efficiency too; as an entrepreneur and technician and collegiate I must be...just use your mouse

don't let your name describe your brain!

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DogPatch1149

Wong calls Windows 8 "a new system that consumers must learn".

Really? Last time I checked, there were alternatives.

- Keep Windows 8 but use a program such as Start8 or Classic Shell. Giving customers the option to choose the default UI is what MS should have done in the first place, and these two programs give people that choice. I've used Classic Shell in my Win 8 VM, and it just works.
- Keep Windows 7, because extended support doesn't end until 1/14/2020. Anyone want to guess that Win 7 will be the next OS that just won't die? I'll make that guess.
- Switch to a Linux distribution. I don't agree with MarioJP's statement that Linux is difficult or requires a lot of attention - Linux Mint with the Cinnamon UI is one example of a distribution that gets it right, IMHO.
- Switch to Mac OS X. Definitely not my choice, but it's an option.

Saying that we "must" learn a product seems a bit presumptuous to me.

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whr4usa

+1

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poppy211

windows 8 does not belong on the desktop end of line these retards
at ms dont get it metro is useless i never bought vista and i will never buy this

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DarkMatter

I think Acer missed the boat a wee bit. I don't hate ( too terribly much) the touch screen more than what they got rid of in order to force feed what they ( microsoft ) think how consumers should operate a computer. I played with Windows 8 and the Windows Surface RT and I loved and hateted it at the same time. I think they will get it worked out by Windows 9 or 10. But for now . I am sticking with Windows 7 for my "legacy" programs and linux for when I need to get stuff done.

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Granite

Cool, Acer...I'm glad you've finally come around.

Now...offer me a 27" touchscreen monitor that I can afford and I'll be happy.

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fung0

After using Win8 for some weeks, on a number of different devices, I've discovered no positive attributes that weren't obvious at the start. The 'Metro' UI is pretty nice, as far as it goes. The gesture commands are particularly smooth, compared to other touch-based systems. The software is stable, and has excellent backward compatibility.

What spoils it all is a gruesome lack of polish, or attention to detail. For starters, there's the absolutely abominable integration of the touch UI and the mouse/keyboard desktop UI. Whichever mode you try to use, you inevitably find yourself either desperately needing the other one, or just being unceremoniously dumped into it. Both modes are incomplete, yet they're entangled with each other in a way that spoils the elegance of both.

Many, many other details are similarly botched. The Start screen, love it or hate it, is not as well executed as it should be. Tiles behave oddly, and won't allow for certain obvious kinds of groupings. The number of tiles you can have visible is severely limited, even on the largest displays. Your current view is not remembered when you flip away and back again. And so on and on, just about ad infinitum.

To admit that Microsoft had a few good IDEAS in Windows 8 is not the same as saying that Windows 8 is a good OS. It's not. It's annoying and cumbersome to use, even when you're trying mightily to like it. Alas, given Microsoft's recent reluctance to admit mistakes, or to heed user feedback, it seems unlikely that the worst problems will ever be addressed.

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HVDynamo

This. It's not that it's absolutely terrible, it just isn't polished and doesn't work quite as well with a mouse and keyboard as it should. I think the interface is pretty good.. for a touch device. It just isn't intuitive for mouse and keyboard. If I had to upgrade to it, it would bug me a little, but I would just learn the new tricks. But, win 7 is doing everything I want and I don't have any issues with the UI. So for me it boils down to the fact that there is no compelling reason to upgrade for me. So until win8 gets that polish, it will be staying in the VM for me. Really all they had to do was build in the option to turn aero back on(I really like the look and feel better than the win8 desktop), and bring back the start menu as an option and I may have bought it. I realize that you can download programs that restore the start menu, but then that's just another program that has to be running all the time. Hopefully a service pack, or win9 will make it worth the upgrade.

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MarioJP

Linux is a steep learning curve. Now that's a OS that requires attention if you ever run yourself into a bind. Ubuntu has no start menu so the whole "start menu" debate with windows 8 is moot.

I have Linux Ubuntu on a flash drive as my portable OS while I have windows 8 Installed. Its sad that Windows 8 was perceived as "another Vista" which clearly it is not. Vista had issues with memory usage right around the time when RAM was scarce. This time around Windows 8 is about looks and functionality. I call this change. Sure the first step is never easy kind of like how going from XP to Vista was.

There are just people in this world that really don't like change. I really don't get the critics of Windows 8 being a "POS". Between Windows 8 and 7 and even XP. 7 and 8 are good OS's. XP in the other hand has got to go!.

Seriously though. If the desktop does not change then its going to be swallowed up by tablets and smartphones. Why do you think Apple is spending so much effort in this area and kind of ignoring the "desktop Mac pros" including the imac. When you walk into a Apple store you see more tablets and smartphones more than you see imacs and macbooks. Why is that. Oh because tablets is the craze these days.

This is the thing i could never understand. What if Apple did another change like i dunno ditch Intel for ARM. Would people still buy imacs after this decision??.

Just read a article there were more activation of ios and android soaring through the roof from Christmas alone. No sales of any Macs or PC's was mentioned anywhere.

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0ly1r3m@1ns

Ubuntu's default DE has a start menu, its called Unity Dash, it does what the startmenu did in Windows, give you a nice place to search your installed programs. The issue with Windows 8 not having a startmenu is that programs are hard to find and switching to metro and having this full screen shit which can't even search it right is cumbersome.

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Peanut Fox

I think the desktop being swallowed up by tablets and the like is going to happen weather Microsoft, Apple, or anyone else tries to reinvent how users interact with their desktop machines.

The largest portion of PC desktop users are content consumers and you don't need a desktop machine to do that anymore. Even though the desktop handles content creation, email, and just general web browsing better than any tablet or smartphone, it's not a fate I can see it shaking.

People seem to have an uncanny fear of PCs. There's never a discussion between mainstream users about all the things they can do on or with their computer, but tap into those same people who are just gaining mastery over their smartphone and it's this animated bit of chatter of all the things they can do with their comparatively limited device.

Saying "If the desktop does not change" is strange to me. It's already the biggest, fastest, best in everything, and notebooks allow us to take most all of those benefits with us on a plane. So then what does the desktop change in to?

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MarioJP

I could care less about the UI in general but the functionality is important to me. The fact that Windows 8 now supports Apps just like OS X Lion is a step in the right direction and now that i've been introduced to the windows store (sure could use some improving but its the thought that counts) i don't want to go back to Windows 7 ever again. So windows 8 is 7 with App support. As for the modern UI I've gotten used to it and does not bother me but it needs more work. Like you should be able to search instantly while you are on the desktop to avoid switching back and fourth.

I don't know whats the real solution but the instant search the moment you boot up to the modern UI without having to click on anything is a plus. It just does not work when you are on the desktop. So again could use some more improving to minimize the switching. Other than that Windows 8 is not a bad os like most claim to say.

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DarkMatter

Ubuntu does have a start menu. It is dependant on the windows manager you use.. the "default" ubuntu ...ok... I will give you that. but with little to no research one can load cinnimon which DOES have a start menue... or you can use one of the dirivatives, such as Kubuntu ( KDE ) or Xubuntu (xfce) so it is NOT moot. But to each their own. Learning curve ? No more than any learning curve when an OS maker dicides to change what works.. Conacial and Microsoft are both at fault but atleast with Ubuntu I can change things to my liking... 'nuff said.

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Granite

The average consumer isn't going to jump through all those hoops.

MS got it right. A Modern UI that people who have used smart phones and tablets will easily take to and a pretty much standard desktop for those who roll that way.

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MarioJP

Hence why i left ubuntu by default and on the flash drive. Furthermore you can always download start8 without jumping through some hoops and done but i am ok with the modern UI. I like how i can pin the icons on the wall instead of the taskbar. Can arrange them to your liking and that i do like. Sides menus are overrated anyways that's just me so don't take me seriously ok lol.

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whr4usa

+1

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