The 64GB Surface Pro Ships With Just 23GB of Usable Space

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groberts116

All Tech reviewers claims of Surface Pro reduced storage is matter of making a mountain out of a mole hill:

Because Microsoft has a handy little tool on the surface that allows you to move the recovery partition to a usb drive. During the process it will prompt if you want to delete the partition and recover the space. Worked great and took about 10 minutes!

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twoheart

Not to mention the hibernate feature, if you turn that off you will gain more hard drive space. This article fails in so many areas. I have to wonder if its a reporter making these determinations and NOT a person with a background in computer science.

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Eoraptor

Great, just like installing Start8 or ClassicShell, you have to make yet another hack to your computer before it's ready for use... Especially since we all have 32 ad 64 gig bootable USB drives just laying around that we want to permanently sacrifice.

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davelray

First off, most any flash drive can be made bootable an second you can pick up a 32 gb thumb drive most places for around 20 to 30 bucks. And that's most likely more than the Windows recovery even needs. This is no different than using a set of DVD-r discs to make a recovery set for a new desktop or laptop and is nothing like getting classic shell or start8. But I guess you gotta complain about something to justify your dislike.

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pratikrawankar

WTF

i was collected enough money to buy 2-quantity of MS Surface pro 64gb ---for my young brothers

but Now Fuckk off MS

and thanks alot Maximumpc u guys are awesome
saved my lots of money
i m so happy

MS is COlORFUL-WIDOW
die in the hell

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daardvark

I plan to buy a Surface Pro but never did I consider the 64GB version. I don't even know why MS is offering it. I had to wait to upgrade my desktop to an SSD till I could justify at least a 128GB boot drive. I have tried juggling a 64GB Windows 7 boot drive and it required I think too much about space management and it always bugs me to see the RED bar every time I look at my drives. Eventually I bumped it to 100GB and it helped a lot.

So why would Surface Pro be any different? I can manage on 64GB, but once I get VS, Office and the other programs I love and use on it, I am down to GB scraps. The only people who should be talking about the 64GB version are those who would put that SSD in their desktop...get the right focus and just talk about the 128GB version, that is a workable size for business use with some personal tossed in. I am assumeing a Maximum PC user, I work with some MS Office only types that could function for a lifetime with a 64GB windows install drive and a USB jack.

Am I the only one praying that Surface Pro has an installed SSD I can get at! I'll be jumping it up to 256GB within the first week if it does.

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reded23

I really don't know what they are putting on that drive. I have a 64gb ThinkPad 2 and even with all my programs loaded still have 30gb left ?

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jgottberg

I think once people realize that it is a PC, albiet in a new form factor, they will be ok with it. Especially since you can use a flash drive as removeable storage unlike some of the other tablets.

And really, it's intended use appears to be aimed at professionals that need more functionality from a tablet than stripped down versions of word processors and spreadsheet viewers. The point is that I don't think people are buying this version to be their traveling music player with TB's of music stored on it.

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Shalbatana

Rediculous! A little overhead is fine, but less than half? Absurd just on principal. Windows 8 and Office on a desktop doesn't even take that much room.

A little overhead for the OS, etc is fine, not over HALF!

Perhaps they have a compressed on-board backup system that backs up the OS and your contents? Well then advertise it as a feature.

Second, if you really need that much space for your OS, etc. don't tell your consumers they're getting 64gb of a machine. Users care about usable space, not how big the hardware itself is.

I don't think they're decieving people, I don't think it's shady. I think it's bad advertising, especially if there's no justification for it. If MS turned around and said, "yes we recognise it's a lot, but here's why and here's the valueadd you can get out of it", they could have turned a negative into a positive. Instead they shot themselves in the foot again. Probably because they were too worried with the reviewers harping on the "small amount of disk space", and didn't realize that now they're going to be accused of misleading and deceptive practices.

I would really love to hear MS man-up and justify why so much space is used. If they can justify it...I'm okay with it.

They should seriously take a look at their PR and promotions departments.

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aplusbex1

What has changed in the last two years? I'm looking at first gen ultrabook articles and there isn't a single comment about how the 64gig models are fine but don't leave enough space for personal files. Can't imagine win7+ bloatware+ recovery left more than 25 gigs on those.

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maxeeemum

Once again Microsoft has just knocked it out of the park!!!

LOL!

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vkt62

The main problem is that the Surface at the time of shipping is already 2/3rds filled up. If it had 250gb or 500gb storage space and used the same 41gb at time of shipping, it wouldn't have mattered. It all comes down to what % of usable space you are getting for the actual space you payed for. Here you are paying for 64gb but if you get 60gb or even 55gb, you might be okay with it, but only 23gb? that a little too much. They should have just sold it as a 25 GB device and the 128gb one as a 85gb device.

I would like to point out that though it is considered as a tablet, it a hybrid of a laptop and tablet. It has tablet feature with laptop hardware and it will be what the future of laptop will be (As long as the keyboard/touchpad will come free with it).

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eastbayrae

More MS and PC bashing? I am starting to think this site is owned by The Verge.

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Engelsstaub

Justin Kerr is not bashing PCs by pointing out tech news that was common to most tech sites.

Tell us what you really think: would you not be upset to unbox a thousand dollar device that advertises 64 Gb of storage and only TWENTY THREE is available to you? Where's the precedent for having over 40 Gb of space unavailable? I don't even remember seeing it on my last Windows PC. I have a full XP install in a VM right now. It's entire image is 4.91 Gb. Here's a link to a screenshot on Imageshack if the spam filter will alllow it:

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/3648/70891804.png

When I get a copy of Win 8 I expect it to be a bit bigger...but not 40 freaking Gb. I'm creating one right now with the RC copy of Win8 that I still have. VirtualBox is suggesting 25 Gb TOTAL of dynamically-allocated disk space. That's total IOW as big as the image will ever get..not just that which the OS needs.

It looks like relevant PC-news to me. I'm guessing you'd rather see an in-depth article detailing something like this coming from an Apple product so you can leave funny comments on a story that isn't relevant to most PC users. You want your Windows News (positive and negative) or do you just need preaching for the choir?

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eastbayrae

Have looked at the 'news' that has been on this site the past 6 months? The MS and PC bashing is endless. Out of 10 articles they will post 1 or none that are positive. Hell, even the positive stuff Paul Lilly turns into to something negative. If you don't like the RT or the Pro then don't buy one. MS doesn't say that the stuff that comes with it has to stay on there or the tablet won't work. DELETE IT. Nobody complains when PC vendors dump gigs of garbage bloatware on to anything they and they whine when MS does the same thing.

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Paul_Lilly

He sounds like a real jerk, if that's what he's really doing.

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Electrik

Does this thing have USB 3.0? If so, then pack a WD Passport. Of course, packing extra storage defeats the purpose of having a portable device in the first place.

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Mikey109105

If its not 64 GB of usable space then its not a 65 GB surface, so screw off, M$!

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HVDynamo

I think the real issue hear is not with how much the OS actually eats up, but the percentage of total storage it eats up. I have always expected a computer/iphone/android/... to always have some space taken up by the OS. I am fine with that, what bothers me is the sheer fact that it eats up so much of the advertised space that it begins to feel like false advertising. If I were to buy any device and find that 64% of the total advertised storage(the case with the 64GB surface pro) is already taken I would be pissed. Now in a laptop with a 1TB hard drive that 41GB for the OS is only 4.1% of the space.

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bautrey

Its probably all recovery files. I bought a yoga a month ago and 32GB was used in separate partitions of recovery files, so stupid...

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Engelsstaub

OK, I don't want to serial-post here but I think many of you are getting too far OT. Here's the Million-Dollar Question:

"Why does the Surface use well over fifty percent (closer to 75) of its hard disk space out of the box?"

I've tried Win8 when it was RC and it seemed very lean. I was actually (mostly) impressed. Can anyone who has it currently installed on their system tell us what the OS uses in hard disk space in their experience?

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Peanut Fox

My guess is that it's minus 5GB for how the partition is setup, minus installed programs such as the OS, Office, and maybe a few smaller applications. They probably reserve a few gigs for updates and other odds and ends too. A full Windows 8 install is about 10.5 gigs for the 32bit version and around 13gigs for the 64gig version

Either way it's thin on capacity, and hopefully folks are aware of that before they buy. It's certainly something I never considered. However I'd never buy this expecting to store much of anything. I'd probably rely on cloud and syncing services.

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davelray

My best guess is as follows:

Windows 8 Professional - 20 to 25GB
Microsoft Office - 1GB, Maybe 2GB.
Miscellaneous Software - 1 to 2GB
Compressed restore/backup - 15 to 20 GB

Just a best guess. Hopefully, unlike with the RT, the restore files can be used to create a USB restore then removed from the system, then you could clean off anything you didn't want.

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Engelsstaub

Got it Peanut Fox and davelray.

...I don't like it, but it is what it is. I think the closest competitor (price and form) would be the 11' MBA.

For about the same price consumers would be looking at a compromise either way.

A. The Surface is somewhat crippled by its storage-issues but has an SD-slot to try to compensate for it. It also has the advantage of touch-screen features/can be used as a tablet.

B. The 11" MBA has no such storage issues (uses a "normal" amount for the system) and is also expandable via SD. There's no touch features and the screen can't be torn off to be used as a tablet :P

I can see a lot of people choosing the Surface over the MBA because it's actually innovative and has functionality that isn't redundantly implemented in all of the other devices. IOW it's unique and I respect that. Still think the storage thing is stupid though.

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Eoraptor

I've got the same space-gobbling issue on a bargain Toshiba I got at the holidays. It has a 500Gb class hard disk in it, but almost 100 gb is taken up by recovery media and boot partitions.

It seems to be down to how Windows 8 handles its vaunted UEFI partiton system. Those of us who installed from disk probably used a more traditional "BIOS" install. But when you allow Windows 8 to install in its "secure UEFI" configuration (or the factory does) it quickly hides a couple of partitions which are tied to the size of the system image and backup files. While this does enable the niceties of the windows 8 recovery scheme, it devours anywhere from 15% and up of the usable raw disk space depending on whether or not the recovery partition includes any non-os software such as office, norton, or PC crapware.

A basic from-media install will only make a grab for the OS files and drivers, and probably only snarks 15% or so of the available disk space for the hidden boot and recovery partitions, (this is based on disk size apparently, not on file size; UEFI in windows just doesn't seem as efficient as it is in Redhat or Mac) but as soon as the device maker replaces that image with one loaded down with all manner of addons and extras, as we can assume MS has done with the Surface Pro by shoveling in a full load of Office and any proprietary stuff like DVD viewers (since you know, win8 doesn't natively view such media) then the hidden partitions quickly balloon out of control with custom firmware shadowcopies, boot partitions, recovery partitions, etc.

So yeah, even if you wait for a 256gb version of the surface, it's still gonna come with a sizeable chunk of usable space "missing." But who cares; after all, all the cool kids play in the cloud, right? Only a loser is worried about working or storing files locally, right?

Feh.

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Engelsstaub

Well, if that's the case I'd consider buying one and reinstalling everything (probably a good idea anyway...I don't know how much shovelware MS would put on their own hardware. I would think it would be nearly non-existent for a Mac-like price.)

I just think it's good that MaxPC and other tech-news/blogs/whatever are mentioning it because it does seem like something the average consumer would want to know before parting with their hard-earned cash. Maybe readers of MPC would largely have stuff like this figured out, but you guys are usually the exception and tend to be intermediate-to-advanced in your computer knowledge.

...like I said in another comment: I think it's a decent piece of hardware that is actually unique in the marketplace at this time. Microsoft should be commended for this particular innovation. (This doesn't take into consideration someone's concerns or gripes with "secure boot" or Win8 "Metro.")

The closest thing to it is a 11" MBA...but Apple doesn't even have a touch-based computer computer that runs OS X. Now MS just gave them a run for their money with a tablet that poops on the iPad...which I like. Hopefully they don't mess up their momentum by poorly-promoting/supporting it (*cough* Zune *cough*) or pissing off their user-base with storage-issues. Let's face it: Windows/PC makers make a great deal of money off of average people who know little about computers. This isn't going to sell as well to gamers (like a lot of you are) who would rather drop that sort of cash on some triple A titles and upgrades to your electricity-sucking, full horsepower, fun-boxes :D

...but yeah: I could handle my own recovery and backup options. I do it very effectively on my working computer with SuperDuper (to a bootable image) and redundant backup of important files using Time Machine. I think all one would need is Acronis and a little common sense on a Win PC and you're good to go.

(I know "tl;dr" I need to stop pounding off tomes and essays...)

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fuzz_64

Uhuh and what exactly is the problem?

I have yet to find a laptop / tablet that came with an OS and software that didn't use up space.

23GB not enough? Oh! Look! They have an upgraded model for that!

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thematejka

I think the bigger problem is why the system needs so much space??? So inefficient for what a tablet is used for. I like the idea of having a tablet that can be a mostly full-fledged pc, but not if the storage is so small... They'd better streamline their memory usage or add bigger hard drives by default to draw more customers.

Everyone lies a little bit (or a lot) when they market storage capacity. It's not okay, but a sad reality.

boo Microsoft, booo...

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wintercoder

Why is this news? Microsoft has had a statement on the specifications page of the Surface's website for MONTHS!.

While I do believe for the extra $100 we should be get more than just an extra 64GB, I always assumed I would be taking advantage of the MicroSD slot for larger files.

So, all you other tablets out there with USB 3.0 *AND* MicroSD slot that also support legacy apps please raise your hands. What? Anybody? Nobody??!?!?? I didn't think so.

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Bullwinkle J Moose

EXACTLY!

and that's one reason why we don't want a tablet

Event this Microshaft table fails to run 20% of our Legacy X86 programs

But that's just one reason

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wintercoder

So, you've tested the Surface Pro and concluded that 20% of you programs will not run. Correct? You have had your hands on a pre-release version, have loaded and executed such a large number of apps that you have concluded to only achieve 80% success? No? I didn't think so.

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Bullwinkle J Moose

I have indeed tested Windows 8 and found that 20% of my X86 programs refuse to install or run on that Operating System

They run fine on XP though, on the same machines

Now which O.S. did you say this new toy runs?

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davelray

What Bullwinkle has failed to mention is that the applications he has tested and that have failed, have failed only because he has them set up as "portable applications" which are not recommended install methods and not supported by their respective manufacturers. He has yet to state a single application, that when installed properly as directed by the maker of the application, that fails to run.

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Bullwinkle J Moose

Wrong answer

Most fail to install

Try installing Adobe Audition 3.0 on Windows 8

Adobe could recoup much of their losses if I were the Windows designer

I would make one version of Windows that runs EVERYTHING, but it would cost $250 and the software providers who were hurt the worst by illegal file sharing would share the profits from that O.S. based on actual losses

The way it is NOW, only Microsoft can recoup their losses and FUCK everybody else who supported them all these years

The "other" Windows O.S. would be locked down like it is today but it would be around $20 and it would be portable

I have a growing list of legacy X86 programs that will not install on Windows 7 or 8 so stop lying and do your own research

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davelray

I don't think you understand what legacy applications are. Be that as it may, nothing I, or anyone else have told you whenever you bring this topic up, is going to make a difference. And by the way, I'd love to tell you that my copy works fine. It installed without issue, but since the activation servers for those old products has been disabled by Adobe, I can't activate it. But that has nothing to do with Windows 7 or Windows 8. That's Adobe. It's their product and they've chosen to be strict about the end of life of their products. Blame Adobe, not Microsoft or Windows. This probably holds true for every single application you consider to have "failed" and be Legacy.

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Bullwinkle J Moose

davelray, you really don't have any idea how stupid you sound do you?

"Who cares if all your software still works on XP and can still be activated, just go buy all new software until it stops working with the next version of Windows"

Is that your answer?

Seriously?

You are a legacy

You think you can read minds too?
You know what others are doing without even asking?

"What Bullwinkle failed to mention is that they were all portable bla bla bla"

record yourself for 20 minutes and play it back in a loop while you sleep so we can all watch you self destruct on the nightly news

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davelray

Bullwinkle, Why is it, when someone, anyone, including me, calls you out on the crap you post, you always sink into the gutter with the insults? I find it curious that you act like this. But maybe I shouldn't be too surprised considering most of what you post is conspiracy laden garbage. So I merely pointed out the fact that, instead of using what I and most others would consider to be legacy applications, you are just using a software program that is so old, even it's manufacturer has stopped supporting it. If it was software that I felt I needed to continue using, I would certainly have no issues of buying a new version if the old version is not supported under a newer operating system. In your case, the software isn't supported anymore, period. Under ANY operating system, even the one it was designed to run under. You can't activate if even if you did install it. And honestly man, if anyone here is likely to self destruct and be seen on the nightly news, I would put my money on you. Save your breath, and your insults, for someone who cares. If you keep posting your non-sense, I'm going to continue calling you out on it. If you don't like it, don't read it and/or don't respond to it. But if you do respond, the least you could do is respond in a dignified manner instead of your usual disrespectful garbage that makes you sound like a 5 year old.

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pastorbob

+1

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pastorbob

'Moose, I find it interesting the way you avoid addressing the valid points that others make by resorting to insults and personal attacks.

Perhaps you should follow your own advice and go take a nap.

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Bullwinkle J Moose

I never saw a valid point

Where is that?

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davelray

Side note to this conversation, I went out and downloaded Adobe Audition 3 standalone and installed that under Windows 8 Pro x64 without issue. Not a single issue encountered during the install. And it started up without an issue and works just fine. So your argument that it "failed" under Windows 8 is still moot whether you consider it a legacy app or not. Loopology even installed fine and ran without an issue. So you want a try again with your same tired old argument?

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Bullwinkle J Moose

YES

Yes I do

Please provide a link where you downloaded it from as I would surely like to try THAT copy

Thanks

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davelray

Sure ,

http://www.adobe.com/downloads/cs2_downloads/index.html.

It's provided by Adobe for those that own it so they can still use it despite the activation server no longer being up.

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Bullwinkle J Moose

Thanks Davelray

I'm going to have to take your word for it working as I used trial copies from Adobe for testing

If it's any consolation, I Believe you that it works and appreciate that you actually took the time to do the research

Thanks

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davelray

You are welcome.

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Bullwinkle J Moose

Need 60GB of free space?

Just install a different O.S.

Oh that's right. I forgot
Hahahhahahhahhahahhahhaha

Well at least its not a Government Sponsored Spyware Platform!

It just looks like one and acts like one and stops everyone from doing anything that is not authorized by Microsoft

I am still a bit confused however...

For who's benefit are we authorized to use this and what is it good for?

Please clarify for the readers

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RedPpwerRanger9

You can also save like 20GB by removing the recovery files that are on there.

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lukersoo

This is a PC! No duh it doesn't have all the space available. It needs it for the OS. I don't see people complaining about a laptop not have all of it ssd space available, why is this different? It has a full core i5 not an arm. It's a Pc, not a tablet!

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Zanshi

Then spend the money for a laptop! You'll get one with more memory and is WAY cheaper. Do you people really not read for context?! What's the point of having 64GB if 2/3 of the storage is eaten up by the OS? NONE! Android tablets only have 3-4GB eaten up by the OS AND have an expansion slot, so *spare* me your fanboism BS!

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anc51699

From a marketing standpoint, there's no question why they would market the full 64GB of space. They do put fine print in their ads, I believe. Any other company would do the exact same thing. I'm not trying to say I agree with it, but I understand it.

Windows is a lot larger than iOS and Android, so it needs that extra space. That's how it's been for all PC's: you don't get the full storage amount due to what is occupied by the OS, Programs, and the reported capacity by the HDD manufacturer. Mac OSX does it too. I don't think the Surface was intended for cramming things onto the SSD like someone with a laptop or desktop would, so I doubt it's all that big of a deal to most. 23GB is still a lot, and you can buy a 32GB SDHC card for $15 if you really need it.

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