Intel and Nvidia's Secret War
Posted 06/02/08 at 03:35:35 PM by Gordon Mah Ung
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That could be bad news for Nvidia, which sees the Intel domain as a tremendous growth opportunity. According to a recent earnings report, Nvidia’s MCP chipset group accounted for roughly 17 percent of Nvidia’s revenue in the last fiscal year. With the 710 million racked up by the MCP group, that makes it number two behind the GPU group at Nvidia.
So, what would happen if there was a catastrophic loss of business for Intel chipsets?
“The impact of losing the Intel chipset business would be modest,” said Dean McCarron, principal analyst with Mercury Research. Intel core-logic chipsets account for just one percent of the Intel chipset market. And despite AMD buying ATI and its broad stable of chipsets, Nvidia continues to be number one. Mercury Research numbers put Nvidia at about 60 percent of the chipset market for AMD CPUs. That market share actually grew slightly by one percent even after the AMD / ATI buy out. McCarron said Nvidia’s share of the AMD pie is unlikely to change in the immediate future as all the indicators out of AMD say that it is more interested in selling CPUs than chipsets right now. The way Nvidia sees it, McCarron said, is the smaller the percentage it has now only gives it a bigger chance for growth.
However, there is no question that an inability to build a Nehalem chipset, combined with AMD getting serious about pushing ATI chipsets, would hurt Nvidia’s bottom line.
With Nvidia refusing to lay out its plans and Intel keeping its lips mum, it’s no wonder speculation is running high among consumers and OEMs. Is Intel withholding a Nehalem license to squeeze Nvidia into giving up an SLI license on Intel chipsets? Is Nvidia facing some technical hurdles with Nehalem? Is Nvidia intentionally dragging its feet on offering an SLI chipset for Nehalem in order to put a dent in what would be Intel’s crowning achievement this year?
Obviously, the only ones with the answers aren’t talking but some think it’s just all being overblown. Jon Peddie, a principal analyst with Jon Peddie Research, said he believes that Nvidia is giving the first generation of Nehalem a pass because it doesn’t see the chipset as a big market opportunity. He said that it’s certainly not a technical issue though.
“Nvidia has the technical talent to design an interface to anything. There’s no technology obstacle for them doing an interface to Nehalem. The technology is trivial,” Peddie said. He said Nvidia is in a good position because Intel needs SLI more than Nvidia needs Nehalem right now. Peddie said bluster aside, cooler heads will prevail and the almighty dollar will win. “At the end of the day, when it comes down to making a sale or not making a sale, reason takes over,” Peddie said.
Still, there’s no denying that things are pretty ugly between Intel and Nvidia right now. More than a half a dozen vendors Maximum PC spoke to implied they felt like ping-pong balls trying to figure out their fall hardware lineups. Most declined to be identified but Rahul Sood, Chief Technology Officer with Hewlett-Packard, said it’s clear we’re in a war. He would not discuss details of Nehalem and SLI but he did say the battle does seem to lead back to SLI.
“Both Intel and Nvidia are important partners of ours. Ever since Nvidia announced that it would not support SLI or Hybrid Graphics on competing chipsets, a quiet war has ensued,” Sood said.
Some of the back and forth volleys included Intel buying Havok, which Nvidia and ATI depended on for physics. Nvidia fired back by buying hardware physics maker Ageia — a company Nvidia previously downplayed. And while Nvidia has generally been good at launching chipsets on time, it was late to release chipsets that supported Intel’s full suite of 45nm CPUs, Sood said.
“After this, a huge dust storm started when Nvidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang openly attacked Intel's graphic’s initiative. In the meantime, Intel is claiming that its next generation graphics are going to be better than any other previous attempt, and Nvidia is saying that GPU computing is the future. The last I heard, Nvidia was buying a company that specializes in rasterization, which is somewhat telling,” Sood said. “All in all, the war is somewhat unavoidable. When you have three huge giants all fighting to play in the same sandbox, you end up with a big mess. It certainly hasn't made our jobs easier. More interesting perhaps, but not easier.”
Been an argument for a while
Submitted by Chumly on Sun, 06/15/2008 - 2:09pm
Been an argument for a while really. Now it's time to play harder ballgames if there is such a thing. Totally nix nVidia from the Intel line...just cut them out and let them play with ATI. They'll adapt to consumers or just fade out.
Hate nVidia's PR replies as well as about everything they fire out with. Just read that reply and think about it: "SLI is not just plugging in two boards; that’s not what SLI is. Crossfire may be that but we view SLI as the experience and the brand". Really? Nothing technical, but an emotion. That's what SLI is then...wow. Little fluffy bunnies powers SLI.
Any hope for solving nVidia's Licensing ending amicably stopped when they started firing volleys that CPU's are useless, and the other drool about how Intel sucks. That's bad PR (trolling) and they know it. So, they're not making sense. They don't like CPU's and think they're the work of the devil, but want a chipset for Nehalem? They're just too ironic.
And if anyone is seeing the future of nVidia cards, you start to grasp this isn't just about graphics and SLI, but nVidia to make chipsets that support Intel procs. It's not pretty from all we've been shown on the 280GTX. This would be a good time for many to open up to the other side, as it's a great product. It'd be more clear if we'd not see ATI's constant low percent losses in Frame Rates, look at growth potential in the architecture, and actual down sides to having nVidia cards in the first place. I guess wait for the HD4870 and these things should be easier to see...nVidia is more of the same ol' same ol'.
Intel v nVidia
Submitted by greds04 on Fri, 06/13/2008 - 9:41am
So much for the PC Gaming Hardware Alliance!!!
Submitted by curl2k1 on Mon, 06/09/2008 - 4:44am
True enough nvidia is trying to sell its platform, but to artificially limit SLI to just work on its chipsets has always pissed me off. They can make the claim that there is special sauce in the nforce chipsets all they want, however I don't believe them.
I've owned nvidia based boards in the past and after getting bit by the data corruption issue twice now, I just can't see myself going back anytime soon. Besides, intel chipsets have always OC's better, ran cooler, and are generally a more stable platform to work with.
Although I'm not the guy to buy into the SLI hype anymore, it would be nice to have the option to use it without having to buy a new board to do so
Submitted by mrlhxc on Sun, 06/08/2008 - 10:19am
....yea this does suck. I'm just gonna get the QX6850 and stick with my 8800GTS and hold out and see what happens. I like the idea of SLI but my 8800GTS is fine for everything but Crysis at 1680 x 1050. I am looking forward to see if Intel really can get into the GPU market.
Submitted by pcfxer on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 3:57pm
w00t best pun ever: "..with OEMs and enthusiasts caught in the crossfire."
Submitted by teahniobium on Fri, 06/06/2008 - 3:42pm
I agree with vistageek, this really hurts bad because intel goes really well with Nvidia. They should really try to Work it out.If they start shipping out the Nehalem CPU's without any SLI support it wouldn't be cool at all. And that really burns the question in whether the GPU is important or the CPU.
The Storm before the Calm
Submitted by Jimlickster on Tue, 06/03/2008 - 6:47pm
It seems to me that they both need to take steps to protect their interests. Intel already seems to be taking those steps. In order for a company to grow, you have to shed your reliance on outside influences. Intel may not always be able to rely on Nvidia to create a Chipset for them. It would make more sense for them to learn this for themselves. Nvidia needs to swallow some pride if they're going to remain a GPU only driven company. That's the way things work. If you're a Manufacturer of Tires, and everyone else is making wheels a different size, you have to Work with the car manufacturer and adjust your size. The only other option is to Manufacture your own Wheels (Or CPUs as the case may be). In the Beginning, this will be kinda rough on the Intel Crowd, but it will ultimately turn out as a Boon for the Consumer. A Solution will have to occur. That solution will be What the consumer wants because we'll vote with our wallets, and that's what will make the companies involved money.
Submitted by mag008 on Tue, 06/03/2008 - 10:53am
This is not the first time nor will it be the last. The all-mighty dollar seems to be the only way to win. When the companies find that they are losing money because we are smart enough to just say no, they have to bend and flex to their market. If Intel and nVidia are not willing to play nice in the sandbox then I will just buy AMD with an ATI solution. The other side of this is do I really need to buy at all or can I just wait it out. Actually, for me I have no need for SLI so I am unaffected by all of this. However, my customers are so my reccomendations are based on whatever solution is availible at the time.
Submitted by dc10ten on Mon, 06/02/2008 - 9:21pm
you want top performance with Nehalem, then you will use two ATI/AMD gpus.
you want top performance with Nvidia gpus, use AMD processors! (which will do the job for computing).
a win win situation for AMD
Submitted by popstop785 on Tue, 06/03/2008 - 6:47am
Am I going to have to educate myself with AMD and ATI tech now?
Like a civil war. :O
Submitted by teahniobium on Fri, 06/06/2008 - 3:44pm
Don't worry man. I started asking myself the same question when i saw the article.
Submitted by rjcouture1 on Mon, 06/02/2008 - 8:41pm
Awsome comic series especially being the one where spidey got his symbiant suit and for the kiddies Mr. fantastic is the one that gets the symbiant off with a sonic gun.
What side do you choose when
Submitted by Keith E. Whisman on Mon, 06/02/2008 - 3:31pm
What side do you choose when you love both companies? Nvidia grow up and unlock SLI on Intel boards. Intel grow up and let Nvidia make chipsets for Nahelem CPU's. God this is like my son and daughter.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!
Submitted by vistageek on Mon, 06/02/2008 - 6:01pm
I am really pissed....I love nVidia and Intel...Maybe I will have to change to AMD/ATI. however, that would also be painful. This sucks.
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