Intel and Nvidia's Secret War
Posted 06/02/08 at 03:35:35 PM | by Gordon Mah Ung
Is the CPU more important or the GPU? Up until now, that’s mostly been a topic suitable for Usenet arguments. But this fall, consumers shopping for uber-rigs may actually be forced to pick a side when Intel’s next-generation Nehalem CPU will likely ship without SLI support.
Although Intel and Nvidia won’t comment on whether SLI would be offered in Intel’s Tylersburg chipset for Nehalem or through a new Nehalem-ready nForce chipset, a half-dozen PC builders told Maximum PC that this dream configuration is definitely not going to happen when the chip launches.
“(this situation) really hurts us,” said one vendor, who asked to remain anonymous. “If someone wants a Nehalem with two SLI cards, we can’t do it. It kind of sucks for system integrators.”
The bad news, PC vendors say, is that faced with such a conundrum, consumers may simply decide to buy nothing while the issue gets hashed out. Unfortunately, it’s not clear when a compromise will happen or even if it will happen. It’s even more difficult to find someone to blame. With both companies tossing quotable stink grenades at each other every other week, many OEMs believe it’s not just “coopetition” any more but World War III – with OEMs and enthusiasts caught in the crossfire.
SLI was originally developed and marketed on an Intel chipset. Many were skeptical of its potential for success but it hit a vein with gamers who had to have everything and was also a hit with the “buy one, get one later” crowd. And although many believe SLI will work fine on Intel’s current X48 chipset, Nvidia has never supported Intel desktop chipsets with SLI. Nvidia has always attributed this incompatibility to “validation” issues but most observers believe it’s more of a business decision to help sell nForce SLI chipsets. For the last few years, enthusiasts who wanted to pair SLI and Intel CPUs could only do so by buying [Nvidia designed] nForce SLI-based boards. That won’t work with Nehalem as the new chip and its LGA1366 socket is incompatible with existing LGA775 motherboards.
When asked about SLI for Nehalem, Intel spokesman Daniel Snyder said: “Tylersburg (the chipset for Nehalem) will work mechanically and electrically with multiple-graphics-card solutions.” He added that AMD plans to fully support the Tylersburg chipset with CrossFire and other vendors could as well – if they wanted to.
Nvidia spokesman Brian Burke would not comment on any upcoming SLI chipsets for Nehalem but he appeared to nix any ideas of SLI running on an Intel chipset as a solution.
“SLI is not just plugging in two boards; that’s not what SLI is. Crossfire may be that but we view SLI as the experience and the brand, we want to protect our brand with an ecosystem that works,” Burke said. He said how the GPUs interact with the chipset is also a very important part of the equation, so Nvidia’s plans are to continue to support SLI through an nForce chipset. “We do have full licensing in our licensing agreement (to build for Nehalem),” Burke said. “We don’t have a product for Nehalem. Right now.”
That license is in dispute, though. When pressed about Nvidia’s licensing claim, Intel told Maximum PC: “there is a disagreement between Intel and Nvidia as to the scope of Nvidia’s license from Intel to make chipsets compatible with Intel microprocessors.”
Snyder said Intel was trying to resolve the disagreement privately and amicably with Nvidia and the company said it hoped that it would not impact other areas of the companies’ working relationship.
Though light on details, Snyder did concede that “We are not seeking any SLI concession from Nvidia, in exchange for granting any Nehalem license rights to Nvidia.”
In other words, don’t hold your breath for a Nehalem nForce chipset.
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Been an argument for a while
Submitted by Chumly on Sun, 2008-06-15 15:09
Been an argument for a while really. Now it's time to play harder ballgames if there is such a thing. Totally nix nVidia from the Intel line...just cut them out and let them play with ATI. They'll adapt to consumers or just fade out.
Hate nVidia's PR replies as well as about everything they fire out with. Just read that reply and think about it: "SLI is not just plugging in two boards; that’s not what SLI is. Crossfire may be that but we view SLI as the experience and the brand". Really? Nothing technical, but an emotion. That's what SLI is then...wow. Little fluffy bunnies powers SLI.
Any hope for solving nVidia's Licensing ending amicably stopped when they started firing volleys that CPU's are useless, and the other drool about how Intel sucks. That's bad PR (trolling) and they know it. So, they're not making sense. They don't like CPU's and think they're the work of the devil, but want a chipset for Nehalem? They're just too ironic.
And if anyone is seeing the future of nVidia cards, you start to grasp this isn't just about graphics and SLI, but nVidia to make chipsets that support Intel procs. It's not pretty from all we've been shown on the 280GTX. This would be a good time for many to open up to the other side, as it's a great product. It'd be more clear if we'd not see ATI's constant low percent losses in Frame Rates, look at growth potential in the architecture, and actual down sides to having nVidia cards in the first place. I guess wait for the HD4870 and these things should be easier to see...nVidia is more of the same ol' same ol'.
Intel v nVidia
Submitted by greds04 on Fri, 2008-06-13 10:41
So much for the PC Gaming Hardware Alliance!!!
Submitted by curl2k1 on Mon, 2008-06-09 05:44
True enough nvidia is trying to sell its platform, but to artificially limit SLI to just work on its chipsets has always pissed me off. They can make the claim that there is special sauce in the nforce chipsets all they want, however I don't believe them.
I've owned nvidia based boards in the past and after getting bit by the data corruption issue twice now, I just can't see myself going back anytime soon. Besides, intel chipsets have always OC's better, ran cooler, and are generally a more stable platform to work with.
Although I'm not the guy to buy into the SLI hype anymore, it would be nice to have the option to use it without having to buy a new board to do so
Submitted by mrlhxc on Sun, 2008-06-08 11:19
....yea this does suck. I'm just gonna get the QX6850 and stick with my 8800GTS and hold out and see what happens. I like the idea of SLI but my 8800GTS is fine for everything but Crysis at 1680 x 1050. I am looking forward to see if Intel really can get into the GPU market.
Submitted by pcfxer on Sat, 2008-06-07 16:57
w00t best pun ever: "..with OEMs and enthusiasts caught in the crossfire."
Submitted by teahniobium on Fri, 2008-06-06 16:42
I agree with vistageek, this really hurts bad because intel goes really well with Nvidia. They should really try to Work it out.If they start shipping out the Nehalem CPU's without any SLI support it wouldn't be cool at all. And that really burns the question in whether the GPU is important or the CPU.
The Storm before the Calm
Submitted by Jimlickster on Tue, 2008-06-03 19:47
It seems to me that they both need to take steps to protect their interests. Intel already seems to be taking those steps. In order for a company to grow, you have to shed your reliance on outside influences. Intel may not always be able to rely on Nvidia to create a Chipset for them. It would make more sense for them to learn this for themselves. Nvidia needs to swallow some pride if they're going to remain a GPU only driven company. That's the way things work. If you're a Manufacturer of Tires, and everyone else is making wheels a different size, you have to Work with the car manufacturer and adjust your size. The only other option is to Manufacture your own Wheels (Or CPUs as the case may be). In the Beginning, this will be kinda rough on the Intel Crowd, but it will ultimately turn out as a Boon for the Consumer. A Solution will have to occur. That solution will be What the consumer wants because we'll vote with our wallets, and that's what will make the companies involved money.
Submitted by mag008 on Tue, 2008-06-03 11:53
This is not the first time nor will it be the last. The all-mighty dollar seems to be the only way to win. When the companies find that they are losing money because we are smart enough to just say no, they have to bend and flex to their market. If Intel and nVidia are not willing to play nice in the sandbox then I will just buy AMD with an ATI solution. The other side of this is do I really need to buy at all or can I just wait it out. Actually, for me I have no need for SLI so I am unaffected by all of this. However, my customers are so my reccomendations are based on whatever solution is availible at the time.
Submitted by dc10ten on Mon, 2008-06-02 22:21
you want top performance with Nehalem, then you will use two ATI/AMD gpus.
you want top performance with Nvidia gpus, use AMD processors! (which will do the job for computing).
a win win situation for AMD
Submitted by popstop785 on Tue, 2008-06-03 07:47
Am I going to have to educate myself with AMD and ATI tech now?
Like a civil war. :O
Submitted by teahniobium on Fri, 2008-06-06 16:44
Don't worry man. I started asking myself the same question when i saw the article.
Submitted by rjcouture1 on Mon, 2008-06-02 21:41
Awsome comic series especially being the one where spidey got his symbiant suit and for the kiddies Mr. fantastic is the one that gets the symbiant off with a sonic gun.
So back to being AMD only?
Submitted by Link2Ib on Mon, 2008-06-02 16:39
When SLI first came out, weren't there only AMD nForce SLI boards? This is almost a restoration of that, except now AMD CPUs are no longer the fastest, so enthusiasts don't want them as much. And of course now AMD owns ATI so nVidia is kind of stuck between helping one competitor and helping another, and I guess Intel is the bigger threat so they chose to side with AMD for now.
What side do you choose when
Submitted by Keith E. Whisman on Mon, 2008-06-02 16:31
What side do you choose when you love both companies? Nvidia grow up and unlock SLI on Intel boards. Intel grow up and let Nvidia make chipsets for Nahelem CPU's. God this is like my son and daughter.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!
Submitted by vistageek on Mon, 2008-06-02 19:01
I am really pissed....I love nVidia and Intel...Maybe I will have to change to AMD/ATI. however, that would also be painful. This sucks.
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