Dell Proves Apple Gouges on Hardware with a Handy Comparison Chart

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GetOverIt

I am actually upset over this one. Your sister mag MacLife got this more right than you did. http://www.maclife.com/article/news/dell_compares_apples_applestheirs_are_little_rotten I would expect that the PC magazine that I read for hardware specs and reviews would have followed the formatting and research that MacLife went over a little more even if they did copy most of their article from is site: http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/08/09/dell.tries.to.scare.users.away.from.macbooks/

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kiaghi7

disregard :D

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arosadler

I'm telling Steve you said you would pay $4000 for a macbook.

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whiplash55

It comes a lot closer to the Mac price but has better choices for hardware including Blu-Ray.

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rickyaustin

I know this is PC site, so I expect to see a certain viewpoint, and am not here to start a brawl. 

But maybe I'll offer a little perspective as an Apple user (Graphic Designer). 

When I go computer shopping, I look one place. The Apple Store. Why? Because the price of PCs is irrelevant. Why? Because I'm paying the money for Mac OS X. That's really the end of the story. 

It's the only operating system that doesn't completely make me want to throw the computer down the stairs. I thank goodness Apple puts care into their hardware, it's just a bonus. For us, it's the OS. 

I just can't use a PC. It's not that I'm unable, I can DO it, I just don't want to. The Apple OS is far simpler and works just as well, if not better, for everything I need to do. I'd pay $4,000 for an Apple computer, (don't tell Steve Jobs) because for me, there is no other choice. Every time I test websites on various PC systems (frequently) it simply reaffirms that opinion. I have the money to spend on the Apple, so I do.

——————

And I would like to add some perspective on the design vs. utility dialogue.

I'm not sure why some would look down on others for buying computers/tablets/phones based on fashion/luxury. It's 2010 and many people live much of their lives through these digital portals. It would make sense that people want a fashion item, because it reflects on who the person is. It's like clothes, or cars, or anything comparable that people spend much of their time in.

We now live much our non-work lives in these machines — they aren't just for utility — so it makes sense people want something more than just a utilitarian product. And people will pay for it. $1,000 more for a laptop apparently.

That's all :) trying hard not to start a war. Just giving another point of view.

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kiaghi7

"I thank goodness Apple puts care into their hardware, it's just a bonus."

 

Well, no, Apple puts no care into "their" hardware, because they don't make hardware...

 

You seem to forget, or be blissfully unaware, that Apple LOST the hardware war... They lost the hardware war so badly in fact that Apple owes its existence to a petty pittance paid by Microsoft to Apple, by all means look it up...

 

Anyway, the hardware Apple uses is PC hardware, it just happens to be running Apple's OS, which they stole from Linux, and then accuse PC users of "copying" when PC did it first and Apple users are just trying to rewrite history for the sake of convenience.

 

You are quite literally paying twice as much for an identical product... If you must have an Apple OS, that's a choice you are free to make, but it won't be running on an Apple computer, and it hasn't been running on an Apple computer for many years. There is a reason that people make Hack-intosh's after all, they have come to the realization that anything Apple can do, PC's simply do BETTER and for much less. Rather than waiting for Apple to catch up to the hardware that was obsolete two years ago all the time, many want to acutally use something that is modern.

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Zeitgeber

I am an Apple user (Graphic Designer) and a PC user (Web Developer/Gamer/Everything Else/Girl). So first off, MaxPC peers, don't think we're all like this.

When I go computer shopping, I look for the greatest bang for my buck. Why? Because in the world of design, if you don't have the newest technologies, you're considered behind the times. You are constantly buying new computers every 2-4 years. I don't know about the rest of you, but I simply can't afford to buy Macs this regularly. I have to take care of my Macbook Pro with the utmost care, because even if it has better specs now, the planned obsolence will make it die sooner than my PC (built by me which I can upgrade whenever I want).

As for when you test on PC systems with websites, I wonder if you've ever considered that it's the browser's CSS and HTML rendering capabilities? They are all different, even Mac Firefox vs. Safari vs. IE for Mac. But then I remember you probably only design websites, not really build them. It's called cross-compatibility. 

Let me address your design vs. utility dialogue. It would be a great argument, except for the fact that you are presupposing that everyone has the same aesthetic as you, and that laptops/PC desktops cannot be pretty. Eye is in the beauty of the beholder, right? I would never say that the PC is just "utilitarian," unless you're referring to, like, I dunno, the ones used in the MILITARY. But to make an overgeneralizing statement such as that is probably why PC people get so frustrated with Mac. It's ignorance. I personally find my looming black aluminum tower with cooling fans and gleaming dual 24" monitors a personal aesthetic experience. In fact, I may have just jizzed in my pants thinking about it. So why don't we just throw that argument aside?

I don't understand why some people think they can design/develop in one platform and think it's ok for the rest. I work and play in both Mac, Windows, and Linux. This is because I believe in determining the best user experience for the person viewing the website. Windows people browse, organize, and play on their computers differently than Mac people. It's pretty half-assed to not be able to understand that perspective.

The real core issue here is that you are comfortable with it, because you get to be a part of the cult(ure) that the marketing companies for Apple created to achieve this exact purpose. "Oh, new Apple product? I'll buy it." They were able to inspire the biggest brand loyalty push I've ever witnessed because of its supposed elitism. I didn't even consider buying a Mac until they received Intel processors.

At the end of the day, I'm a both user, mainly because I don't have my head in my ass. Sorry if that comes off as a little bitter, but I'm tired of the design community only being represented by the Macists.

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rickyaustin

Few things here, so I'll just go thru them as you wrote them:

— I think you missed my computer shopping explanation. It's about OS X. It's the only OS I want to use. It's the OS I've invested thousands of dollars in software and fonts in, and if you count replacing that, the PC becomes even more expensive than the Mac. And again it's not about money. I make my living with this machine. $1,000 with that perspective is not a big deal. And again, I find OS X a joy to use daily, and XP/Vista/7 feels like running with a wheelbarrow to me. I'll pay more to not use a Windows OS in my personal and/or professional life. 

— I'm well aware of HTML rendering capabilities across browsers. I'm not an idiot. I handcode all sites I design (Coda). You made a bunch of assumptions about me based on what? I was speaking to the process of using the OS, and nowhere mentioned that websites look/work better/worse on PCs. Don't presume I'm a moron just because that helps support your argument. 

— Design vs. Utility, I'm aware not everyone has the same aesthetic as me. As a designer, I'm acutely aware that some people have great taste, others have horrid taste, and others don't seem to have any taste or care in the world. I don't believe that all beauty is in the eye of the beholder though. Some, sure, but not all. If that were the case you could say Thomas Kinkade is a better artist than Picasso. Back to technology… Neither you nor I can make a blanket statement about PC's design because it's across the board based on the numerous hardware makers. Some cases are gorgeous, while others are ribbed grey plastic boxes. Obviously some either don't care or prefer the PC look/feel. PC still has a huge marketshare advantage. <em>But my point was that noone should be chastised for picking a piece of tech based on design because they are part of our personal lives in a way that they have never been during human history.</em> And may people pick Macs for this reason because they are consistently across the board beautifully designed and manufactured. 

— Design/develop in same platform. Obviously webbies should be testing on PCs, but they should live and work on the system that they work best on for efficiency and sanity sake. 

— I reject the assumption that I'm part of the Apple cult. Again, assumptions based on nothing. I'm not an Apple cheerleader. I'm mad at them currently more than I'm happy with them about. I own an HTC Evo (admittedly I'm only marginally happy with Android, it needs a LOT of work). I feel that Apple is starting to abandon the professional designer a little bit in the name of consumer profit. Their handling over iPhone 4's antenna was not admirable. But – at the end of the day – I have no other choice. I could spend $10,000 on a PC and not be as genuinely happy with it as I would be with a $999 Macbook. It's why I'd pay any amount of money for my Mac. And that was my whole point. For me, a PC isn't an option, because interacting with the OS makes me want to punch things and makes me genuinely frustrated. Apparently that means my head is in my ass. 

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machew100

People who get frustrated with Windows fail at technology in general.  Waaah waaaaah I use the 2002 dells at my public library and they are SO bad and that's why I think macs are so much better is because the $200 pcs at my school or work are just that bad! That's a fair comparison to make, right? Especially when Macs START at $999 when they give you 5400 rpm hard drives and weak internals just for the sake of battery life and their brand name.  Keep throwing your money in the hole.  Now that you've bought all this exclusive software for them, you're stuck.  Oh look, it's exactly what Apple intended to do, congratulations on being a mindless consumer.

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machew100

I think I need to cite the classic streetbike vs tricycle metaphor. A mac is like a tricycle. You get a nice, easy thing to use, that can't surpass any limits, go above and beyond past what you're given, be customized hardly at all, or run on any of the "main roads". You're paying to be less cost effective because you're less savvy with computers, that's how Apple gets you. A PC is like a streetbike. You can go as fast as you are willing to push it, it's hard to get a handle on, you can customize it to no end, and you can drive it on just about every "main road" and street you want it to.  For those who don't understand the road thing, it's a metaphor for compatability/software/games abundance.  Point is, you're paying more for less, just because they give you a neat package. Another great thing is that you become part of some social cult of people who want their venti triple-shot macchiatos pronto, using their Macs in the only place they know where: Starbucks. Enjoy your i7 overheating issues as well, I love processors that can heat up your starbucks coffee with 95 degrees celsius heat rape just by sitting your mug on your laptop. I'm off to being a savvy, cost-effective user just like the majority of people who browse Maximum***PC***.

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JohnP

  With a limited range of software/hardware and a "closed system" approach, there is a reason why Macs only have a 5-7% market share. For a major player, that is an absmally low penetraion rate. It also has been around that range for 20 years. Having a higher price per power does not help either. My sister loves her MacBook Pro (or whatever it is) but she is a limited user of a computer tho. Me, when I play around with it, I am contiually frustrated by things I can't do rather than wowed by the things I can. Nothing worse than to have to "do with only what Apple lets you do".

  I also read somewhere that over 50% of Mac users also own a PC.

 Now if I paid the higher price for a PC that Apple charges, I too would have a much more reliable machine AND have my choice of what to put in it.

  Does a Mac run Crysis? Heh.

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bminor13

You guys have got to be joking me. Mac OSX is based off of UNIX. Therefore, it has a Terminal application which allows users to do INSANELY nerdy things, including system customization. The documentation at http://homepage.mac.com/rgriff/files/TerminalBasics.pdf just barely scratches the surface.

Exactly what do you perceive Apple's market to be? Maybe they are only trying to focus on and capture the attention of, say, college students (for example). From that perspective, they are pretty darn successful - probably above the "abysmally low penetration rate" that you claim.

The level of someone's computer expertise has nothing to do with the platform they used. One of the smartest computer guys I knew in high school carried his black Macbook everywhere with him. He used it to do everything, including developing his own applications and coding his own websites. He introduced me to a cool shortcuts application called Quicksilver (which has no equivalent on Windows). It allowed him to do things from the desktop using keystrokes that saved him from opening applications. At the same time, I have a lot of experience de-crapping people's Windows machines from their various user errors. While Apple may try to appeal to those who are not "computer people" in their ads, the fact of the matter is that you can be a power user (or ignorant user) on any platform.

My old tired laptop with a Mobility Radeon X1600 could run Crysis at 800x600 with everything on low. I'm sure modern-day Macbook Pros and iMacs can run it in Windows 7 with much more impressive settings.

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machew100

Oh boy, "the fact of the matter is that you can be a power user (or ignorant user) on any platform." What an original thing to say.  I've NEVER heard anyone say "well not ALL ____ are _____". Yawn. The grass is green.  There, I said something that equivalated to your deep insight.

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cjwworld

Hello

I am a computer IT person and quite frankly I would rather have a Mac than a PC.  Yes, Apple charge higher but so what? they have the right to charge.  Just like Lexus can charge a hefty price for their cars.  Are they better cars? yes, they are.  Are Apple better than PC?  yes, and I would be better off paying the higher price.

I spent practically zero maintanance on my home mac but you can't say that with PC.  Constantly working on that piece of garbage

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davidflory

If you were any good at being a "computer IT person" then you really would not be working on your PC that much.  I have been in the IT industry for more than 15 years.  I love all computers and I have learned that most problems are caused by USER ERROR.  I have crashed PCs, Macs, Apples, Suns, Next, etc. and almost every time it was something I messed up.  Yeah, there is the occasional virus, hardware failure, or software bug...and I have seen them in every system including Macs.  Generally, I found that it was something that I did to the computer that caused the problems.  So, maybe you need to pay attention to what you are doing before you end up doing what you done to your PC and doing it to your Mac.

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JohnP

I hear you bro. I have killed way more computers by my own hand than anything that the web nasties could offer up! But I am a hell of a lot more knowlegable than the next person for doing so. "that what kills my computer makes me stronger."

  There really should be a "computer test" like a driver's test before someone is allowed to buy a computer. Sure would save a lot of frustration.

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jakthebomb

I will gladly pay apple the higher price, just to be able to speak with an American.  Sorry Dell, but when i need to spend 20 minutes trying to read out the Service code number only to have the technician repeat it wrong every time.  That makes the extra price worth it.  Now if only Apple changed the "Designed in California, Assembled in China" to " Designed in California, Assembled in USA."

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sidewinder

If it were a truly apples to apples comparison, it would add the faster processor, backlit keyboard, upgraded OS, bluetooth, all putting the Dell at $1900.  The fact of the matter is it's only a $200 difference before the $300 discount.  Factor in the longer battery life of Apples, higher end manufacturing, and yeah even the marketing, and we're once again NOT on even footing.

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chromeronin

I have a Mac Mini 2008, 2GHz intel, 2GB RAM. I of course paid the premium Apple tax when I bought it, but I needed something to run a whole bunch of operating systems including OS X for compatibility testing. It has now become my favourite destop. It's not the fastest machine I have, but it is still the nicest to use, and has a tiny foot print, sips power, and makes no noise. It has out lasted 3 desktop PCs, one a Dell on which the motherboard failed just out of warantee.

I have only ever bought two extra pieces of software for it, EyeTV and tuner stick, and OS X 10.6 (Any other companies actually making their computers FASTER with their updated OS's, OK, apart from Win7 kicking Vistas butt?). Everything else I use came with it or is free - thank God for OpenOffice and Scribus! 

The other issue is that if you buy a Dell, you have to buy Windows here in NZ, none of their offerings here have Linux preinstalled, so no Unix OS for you! 

Yes, you could buy 3 PC's for the cost of one Mac, but youd have to, as they will be crap and unusable running MS's latest OS in 3 years time. Apple have only ditched support for PPC powered macs some 6 years after their last one sold, but they still patch OS X 10.5 which does work fine on PPCs (and so does PPC versions of Linux if you can live without flash)

I really do wish though that Apple sold the guts of an iMac without the screen. I dont need a Pro, but something I could put full sized disks into and my own 30" screen (currently attached to my Mini) would be nice.

NZ Price Comparison - from www.dell.co.nz and apple.com/nz

Dell - Small Business Laptop - Dell Lattitude 13
13" laptop, Core2Duo 1.3GHz 800MHz frontside bus, 2GB RAM 160GB HDD, Windows 7 Pro 32bit, no CDROM, 3 year support - no idea what the video GPU is, based on the crappy CPU, probably an integrated GMA950 or similar. 4 hrs battery life on supplied 6 cell battery.

NZ$2098.74 plus shipping

 

Apple Macbook Pro 13" 2.4GHz core2 Duo, 1066MHz FSB, 4GB DDR3 RAM, 250GB HDD, OS X 10.6 with iLife, Superdrive DVD/WR NVidia GForce 320M GPU. 10 hrs battery life.

NZ$1999 and free shipping

Which laptops are cheaper again?

What makes me choke with laughter is Dells market-speak on the comment for the Lattitude 13 "Great For:
Companies and professionals that require the ultimate in mobility without sacrificing enterprise-class features." 

Because we all know windows just runs great on a 1.3GHz system!

 

 

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476429

Oh Dell, you're a charmer. Like a first date, only show them enough to make a good first impression.

Dell Studio 15 Processor: Intel Core i7 - 1.73GHz
MacBook Pro 15 Processor: Intel Core i7 - 2.66GHz

Dell Studio 15 Graphics: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5470
MacBook Pro 15 Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M and Intel HD Graphics with auto graphics switching.

Dell Studio 15 Built-in Bluetooth: No
MacBook Pro 15 Built-in Bluetooth: Yes

Dell Studio 15 Display: 720p
MacBook Pro 15 Display: 1440 x 900

Dell Studio 15 Keyboard: Standard
MacBook Pro 15 Keyboard: Backlit

Dell Studio 15 Battery: Up to 5 hours.
MacBook Pro 15 Battery: Up to 9 hours.

The MacBook Pro 15 also includes the following features which the Studio 15 does not have:

* Optical audio in/out
* Multi-touch Trackpad
* Firewire 800 (Studio uses Firwire 400)

Also note that getting a Studio 15 in a color other than black adds $40 to the price, and getting Windows 7 with XP Mode (which most users would require) adds $130 to the price.

It's up to the individual to decide whether Windows 7 or OS X is the OS they need--as well as Windows Live Essentials vs iLife.

These are the differences that were immediately obvious. And this is comparing the standard model Studio 15 they used for pricing with the MacBook Pro 15 2.66GHz they used for pricing.

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fvd72

If I am not wrong, the Mac Book Pro's processor is a dual core i7 620 at 2.66, Dell's processor is a quad core i7 720. Out of the two, the dell's is better.

Bluetooth $20 / LCD 1080 (better than apple's 900) $100 / back-lit kb $25 => TOTAL $145 (out of the ~1200 difference...)

do not care for optical audio (never used, had it for many years), multi-touch (I can live without it), firewire 800 (no need for it)

I like black for my laptops. Gray is fine too. I don't like pink. 

No one needs XP compatibility this days. All so called "XP programs" that I have work fine under win7.

In my network I have Win 7 Ultimate (graphical station) and Win 7 Home Premium (tablet PC), XP Pro (my 5 years old Dell laptop I can not part with) and XP HE (on my wife's netbook), and Vista and they are fine.  The only time I needed XPs was for a client, and because of the network settings, Vista did not connected properly to the server. I could make it work, but I did not want to take chances to get calls from him every other day. Now some of his pcs run XP Pro, 3 of them Win7, one Snow Leopard. 

I have a Snow Leopard at home (I am using it to write right now), and I like it. But I can not give up my PCs. Too much software that I have to "rebuy", plus apple computers are overpriced. I like the shiny and the "blink-blink" on them, but for me it is not worth it. 

I did recommend apple to few of my clients (end users that only know how to turn it on, click-click and goodbye), and I do think that there is a need for them. Just that you must compare "apples to apples", not just the hardware itself, but who is behind the screen, what it is used for, etc. For me, PCs. For others, they are better with macs. Peace out!

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machew100

First off, I would never buy Dell. 

Processors: There's still a loss of cost effectiveness in Apple's part, but obviously Dell should've used the same clock speed processor in their comparison.

The GT 330M really isn't a super great graphics card anyways, nor is the HD 5470, you're comparing 'okay' with 'more than okay'.

Bluetooth shouldn't add but $20 to the price tag, so that really doesn't make a dent at all. 

You're wrong about the Dell display, here's a direct copy paste from the Tech Specs section from the Studio 15: "15.6" High Definition LED Displays with TrueLifeTM  available in 720p, 900p, and 1080p resolutions". 720p is wrong wrong wrong on your part, don't half ass your research when you're throwing an argument to the fire. 

Backlit keyboard is handy, point for mac, however, HP's have backlit keyboards on even their $500 range laptops as an option for like $30 more, so that isn't as innovative as one would think.  

Battery life: HP Envy's give the same/better battery life than macs, and even look similar, for wayyyy under $2000.

Optical audio? What are you going to do with that? Plug your laptop into your Logitech Z-5500 and have disproportionate sound on such a small thing? Pff.
Multi-touch Trackpad: Not revolutionary or needed at all. Gimmicky. Look, I can multi-touch zoom from my firefox browser, how innovative! Ctrl + Scrollwheelforward zooms in! Wow! Multi-touch!
Firewire: Who uses this anymore? Only macs. I've yet to see any generic computer accessory use firewire as their input, that's what USB is for. Using firewire as an argument is like saying, "LOOK, IT USES A PCI INSTEAD OF PCI-E!"
Windows 7/XP Mode: Why is everyone so scared of any new operating system that Microsoft comes out with? Vista is completely fine and gives me NO troubles ever, it was just a matter of updates from the rough start. What is so great about XP? The fact that they're stopping automatic updates for it, the fact that it's outdated, the fact that it's completely 'stable' but doesn't take away from the fact that it's 7 years old? No one gives a damn about dual boot with XP, Windows 7 works great, is totally stable, and is newer with features XP doesn't have and won't ever have. Let's buy expired milk next time we go to the grocery store.

Software: Depends on preference. I'm sure Apple tugs you on the sleeve and goes "look what software we have", but it's not like you can't get it for free on PC anyways.

The world would be a better place without macfags.

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476429

720p is wrong wrong wrong on your part, don't half ass your research when you're throwing an argument to the fire.

As I said in my post:

This is comparing the standard model Studio 15 they used for pricing with the MacBook Pro 15 2.66GHz they used for pricing.

They used the 720p model for their price comparison. They have upgrade options for the display, but they did not use those in their price comparison--as they would add to the price.

The world would be a better place without macfags.

I love you too.

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machew100

Oh look, I took apart every piece of your argument, commented and refuted every single bit, and all you have to say is two things, one of them comical. Oops, I win.

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asustello

why are you comparing a high end mac with a base model dell. And the dell still is evenly matched? hmmm Bravo apple, Bravo indeed

apple defects:

no right click on mouse, every other computer yes

hundreds of PC (personal computer) games - apple no, every other device yes

proprietary software and hardware- apple no, every other device yes

dont want to get to technical some body on here might not understand me

 

apple lost cause, every ther device keep getting better and cheaper then apple

 

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reoma

I gladly pay more for Apple products because of the safety and ease of operation. Why any rational person would put up with all the crashes and viruses of a PC is beyond comprehension. I have used many types of computers over the years, and Apple is superior in every way.

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Ayapec

"Why any rational person would put up with all the crashes and viruses of a PC is beyond comprehension"

Hey, Reoma-- wanna know the last time I had a computer virus? It was 1989-- and that wasn't even a PC, it was my beloved Amiga 2000 (UNIX based OS). Any "rational" person can protect themselves from the evils of malware out there, and there are so many high-quality solutions for free, cost is not even a factor.

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Elric

You seriously cannot figure out how to operate a modern Windows PC in such a way that it exhibits "safety and ease of operation"? How do manage to remember how to breathe? It's not the bad old days anymore, Windows doesn't suck like it did a decade and a half ago, between Win7 and Linux there's no longer an excuse for choosing an Apple other than style/fashion/retarded cultish brand loyalty. If that's your thing fair enough.

Seriously... I can respect fashion or "styling" as a consideration.... a lot of PC guys are into the case modding thing etc for that reason... and if you want to spend the extra $$$ just for looks, it's your choice, no problem; just don't pretend it's some technical reason. That doesn't fly in the non-clueless crowd here @ maxpc.
 

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sniggler

Really? My PC is overclocked by over 51% of it's original speed, it's running Windows 7 and it will pass 18 hours of intense burn-in testing under Prime95. Which is more than an Apple with a similar processor can say: http://www.techspot.com/news/38724-core-i7-hits-100c-on-macbook-pro-aluminum-shell-to-blame.html

Don't be ignorant. Apple is just as fallible as everyone else. They use the SAME hardware nowadays as a PC, and their coveted OSX is just as vulnerable to viruses and bugs as any other OS (including Windows).

Having used both Apple (OSX) and PC-based (Linux + Windows) products, I can safely say that my opinion is non-biased, unlike yourself who simply hates on PC because you can't grasp the concept of utilizing an operating system that doesn't draw everything out for you in pretty colors.

Better still, I would say that Windows 7 is probably more user-friendly than any other version of Windows to date, and it's getting damn close to OSX in that field.

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LatiosXT

"Is this even news?" I think the point of this article is showing that Dell is trying to tell the uninformed ignorant customers who aren't PC enthusiasts the differences between the two. Some people here really need to get the right context established before posting a comment like that.

As for Dell, it's not really exactly "Apples to Apples", like where the GPU is and screen size. But again, we're also talking about normal PC users, are they going to care that they have a kickass GeForce 330M GT or a lowly Mobility Radeon 5450? Unless they're going to play games, either solution is sufficient for normal users. But one solution is more overkill than the other.

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Bucket_Monster

Well I won't buy either Dell or Apple, so I guess this is irrelevant.

Also, I'm pretty sure most people know what they are getting into when they want a Mac. They don't care about the price. I'm sure they are aware PC's can be cheaper, so this comparison would be pretty pointless anyway.

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Blues22475

PC's are more robust in the fact that you can replace parts when needed. Moreover, you can upgrade parts as needed. I think some of Apple's hardware is proprietary. I hardly see the argument that Apple's hardware is "more high quality" than any other PC manufacturer on the market. I haven't heard nor seen either platform's component's hardware being better than the other for that matter.

I take this as a bunch of propaganda;  apple does the same.

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chromeronin

New macs are fine with hardware upgrades, just opening the case can be tricky 8)

I put in a 500GB 7200RPM drive into my mini, and while there , I could have also replaced the RAM with 3x2GB DDR3 sticks. Cant upgrade the CPU or GPU though 8( but you cant on a laptop either.

The new Mac Mini has a port on the botton, unscrew and it pops off, access the RAM slots just like on a laptop to upgrade, only a little more work to get to the bottom HDD bay. Much easier now. The new 27" iMac has an accessible drive and RAM bay now, and the Mac Pros have always been able to be upgraded.  Need more storage, a Firewire drive bay isn't to expensive, and is fine for bulk data storage (I'm quite happy with the performance of my 1TB Firewire 400 drive)

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cochese

Uhh... Man, where to begin... Okay. You can upgrade the CPU on any of the HP laptops I've used. As well as a few dells. My last HP laptop purchased in 2007 was upgraded both CPU and Ram, as well as the wireless card. I even upgraded the from 1440x900 to a 1920x1080.

I ended up frying the MOBO after overclocking the GPU by memory and core, adding ~75% more power to it.

My new HP is an 18.5in. Core i7 beast that can do most anything. And if I want, as long as the proc is compatible with my Mobo, I can upgrade that down the road as well. We have come a long ways from soldered in CPUs.

The hardware is pretty much the same regardless of the OS it is running. So a Mac being more powerful is simply not true. It's all in what you spend on hardware, and I'm not talking pointless premiums for an aluminum case.

If you want to talk the difference in OS, there nothing my Mac could do that my Windows PC couldn't do faster and for less money. Though, my last Mac was a Bad-ass G5 tower, it was still beaten by my WinXP system handily.

The only thing Mac has that a Windows user should drool over is Final Cut. And even though that is one hell of an awesome program, there are plenty of Windows programs that work just the same. Hell, nowadays, Photoshop runs better on the PC. And that was my main incentive to own a Mac back in the day.

Seriously though, That G5 tower was damn awesome. I have to renig a little bit... My G5 would kick the shit out of my WinXP setup. Though, it was running to procs to XP machines one.

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noobaluga

Aluminum case, IPS LCD w/ LED back light, and lithium ion battery. Not worth the extra grand but it is better.

 

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noobaluga

Aluminum case, IPS LCD w/ LED back light, and lithium ion battery. Not worth the extra grand but it is better.

 

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Blues22475

I see worth-white on that is the IPS, but dell cases have that (I've seen a couple that do that aren't server cases). Moreover, (this is my opinion though) IPS is useless you got a server tower you need to care for.

All that other stuff exist on other cases that are fairly cheap.

 

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noobaluga

IPS is a type of LCD screen, not computer case. Oh and i love windows and hate using macs ( I have to because of my job). Im just saying i would love a windows laptop with a higher resolution IPS screen and a battery that can last 6-8 hours without it being huge and bulky.

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Blues22475

I thought you were talking about Intrusion Prevention System. XD

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Free_Willy

Comparison fail. That's like comparing a pile of crap to a retarded person. They both stink, but at least you can teach the retard to clean up the big pile of Crapple.

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lunchbox73

Very classy comment. Thanks for bringing this discussion down a few notches.

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Michael Ellis

Your writing is the most eloquent there is. You should be given an award for your persuasive, rational arguements.

No but really you are right on all fronts. Though I would argue that you may have been a bit hard on Dell.

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noobaluga

I would choose a pc over a mac any day of the week, and yes macs are over priced, but they come with significantly better components. For example, the battery lasts much longer, the cases are aluminum and much more durable. The LCDs are IPS, not tn, LED backlit not ccfl, and are also higher resolution. The fact of the matter is that apples products hardware wise are better but they do also charge a premium fee for it. I would really like to see a pc company that uses higher grade components in their products.

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Michael Ellis

What you lose in intrinsic value, you gain in the ability to modify the hardware to your heart's content. As for fancy screens or aluminum cases.....not really worth a thousand dollars.

I think that is what you were getting at, but whatever.

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noobaluga

I dont feel that either apple or dell are the best at making laptops. I would really like to see a company, including dell, that uses nicer components, without charging crazy amounts for it. And there is something to say about design and style, while it should never trump function, having a nice looking computer is good. Performance is great, but why cant there be performance and style. Look at car companies, there spend so much on making their cars beautiful. And they should, no one wants an ugly car. The main point of this is that apple uses some pretty good components. It is not worth in any way shape or form what they charge for it, but the fact of the matter is the stuff inside is generally better. 

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bminor13

While there is no denying that Apple hardware is typically more expensive, Dell predictably is skewing the facts in their favor.

 

For example, the base configuration Studio 15 laptop which they use in the chart has a similar screen size to a Macbook Pro, yes, but has significantly worse resolution (720p vs. 1440x900). Also, despite having half the graphics memory, the Macbook's GT 330M can knock the socks off the Mobility Radeon HD 5470 (and while you can upgrade the screen on the Dell, you cannot upgrade the graphics)

 

They are claming that their Studio 15 has more colors! (for extra money, which they don't mention) Also not mentioned is battery life - I bet the high-capacity battery in the Macbook Pro can outlast that of the Studio by a wide margin.

 

If Dell actually did an "Apples to apples" comparison, I think there is little doubt that their laptop would be cheaper. However, it irks me to see them claim that this is such a comparison, when it obviously is not.

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Havok

You said so for yourself Dell predictably is skewing the facts in their favor.

Apple does that stuff all the time, so in my opinion, yeah,its a fair comparison. Apples to apples.

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bminor13

Apple does do it all the time, but most of us who read MaximumPC know better. Dell could have easily come out with a chart that showed how their laptops with the same or better specs that tells the truth as we know it - that MacBooks are overpriced. Maybe not $1249 overpriced, but substantially so nonetheless. Yet, they came out with another lie. Way to go, Dell!

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Pylon

Actually this is kind of true. If you want an equally or better built notebook (usually business, e.g. IBM/Lenovo Thinkpads, Dell Latitudes, HP Elitebooks), you're going to have to shell out a similar amount of money.

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Pylon

Sorry, this was supposed to be a reply to Bizarre's comment about build quality.

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