Windows 8: 7 Things We Know For Sure

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frizzly

I will probably pass on 8 all together. I love Windows 7. And if it aint broke, dont fix it.

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zEric7x

I proably will not get windows 8. Not becasue I dont want it but its to soon for me to be interested in a  new computer. But looks and sounds nice.

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jmichae3

NTFS is REALLY DATED.  and not that well documented (which means you can't fix it with a 3rd party program).  I wish microsoft would use efs4 as its new filesystem.  it's documented, multithreaded, whereas NTFS runs on a single thread.  This is what I have read in other articles.  and there are other features to consider as well.  nobody had to worry about multiple threads and synchronization because it just wasn't done, and people didn't know a lot about parallel computing back then.  we know a lot more than we did back then, and intel has a C++ parallel library, and it's even being incorporated into the C++ language.

I don't go for cloud computing that much, unless I am doing ray-tracing.  than I need all the parallel I can get.  but finding cloud ray-tracing apps is going to be a bear.  they are few and far between as it is.

[sorry folks, I can't delete this 2nd copy. the save button hiccups because it is dog slow.]

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jmichae3

NTFS is REALLY DATED.  and not that well documented (which means you can't fix it with a 3rd party program).  I wish microsoft would use efs4 as its new filesystem.  it's documented, multithreaded, whereas NTFS runs on a single thread.  This is what I have read in other articles.  and there are other features to consider as well.  nobody had to worry about multiple threads and synchronization because it just wasn't done, and people didn't know a lot about parallel computing back then.  we know a lot more than we did back then, and intel has a C++ parallel library, and it's even being incorporated into the C++ language.

I don't go for cloud computing that much, unless I am doing ray-tracing.  than I need all the parallel I can get.  but finding cloud ray-tracing apps is going to be a bear.  they are few and far between as it is.

 

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Jon Pring

Given what happened to Amazon's cloud servers, I think cloud storage is a huge mistake. The main benefit is that it will make the carriers a ton of money. HDD's will rule.

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ferariman

if you whiney noobs hate ribbon, there are plenty of THIRD PARTY tools around. total commander, anyone? honestly, if everyone has to hate at least one of microsofts products at any given time.first was me, IE, then vista(with IE), IE, and now that IE is slightly acceptable, people hate WINDOWS EXPLORER. the core part of the windows file hiearchy is shunned. it feels like 2004 all over again with IE and firefox.

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Keith E. Whisman

I love that you used the word Mosaic in your paragraph on the web browser. Mosaic being the first commercial web browser. Was that just a happy accident or did you know that you wanted to put Mosaic in there somewhere in advance? Great Article!

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Blues22475

I already hated the ribbon interface as it is, but now they're incorporating it into the Windows Explorer? It will definitely be awhile until I get Windows 8. Quite awhile.

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ChatterboxChuck

I love how almost everyone who commented seems to have a dislike for Microsoft products and therefor have already given Windows 8 a 2 thumbs down without even getting to know this product yet.

I find all of these features interesting and something to look forward to. Cloud support? Why not? It may not be perfect today but then again it's a it a new concept after all and it might be better by the time Windows 8 comes out. I don't understand this dilike for the ribbon in Office 2007. I have not used it much but it is also found on Windows Live Writer and I actually like having access to the menu in this fasion. As cregan89 said, this is not more complex, it's actually easier as far as i can see. People need to let go of XP already, it's old news already.

I like the idea or portability. My only question and concern are as follow:

Could this work on a portable drive as well and could one carry ones own software with it such as MS Office, Firefox, VLC, etc that one would normally have installed on ones PC? Also what would be the implication of using a portable OS on different computers with different hardwares configurations such as nVidia vs ATI, AMD vs Intel, MSI vs ASUS? Will this require the portable OS to carry a huge collection of drivers just to accomodate any hardware configuration one may come across?

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Ghok

I bought Windows 95, ME, XP, and Windows 7.

Far too soon to buy another. especially when there's nothing new here I want to see.

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Caboose

Who says you HAVE to buy it?

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someuid

I see nothing here that justifies and entirely new OS.  Everything could be done with a Service Pack.

As for the tablet thing, I am fatigued.  MS has botched the portable device market so many times, I cringe at their next attempt.  Its embarrassing to see them screw up so bad again and again and again.

Microsoft really needs to pare their entire line up down to just two things: Windows Desktop and Windows Tablet.  No middle flavors.  No start, pro. home, untimate, enterprise, extended, blah blah blah.  Just two OSes with everything, all for one low price.  Every 4 years.  New, must-have features can be added as needed via a Service Pack so they can keep up with all the other developments whirling around them.

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Scatter

/shrug

 

Windows 7 could have been a service pack of Windows Vista

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Caboose

Maybe if you want it to be a service pack like how each release of MacOS is a service pack then sure.

There was far too much stuff changed in Win7 for it to be a simple service pack.

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warptek2010

Thank you... at least somebody said it. This is nothing more than an incremental update in some features with dubious value and eyecandy. Final product price for the retail "ULTIMATE" flavor? I would bet $299.00.

Meanwhile in other news, Linux continues to be F R E E

 

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whiplash55

Speculation of doom or splender is a little premature. From past experience MS tends to fuck up every other release but with SInofsky running the show I'm betting on a solid product. By October we'll have a chance to play with it.

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legacy2013

I like the look of everything in here. I'm espically looking forwards towards the new Task Manager and Portable Work Station.

I'm a power user and Software Engineer and this all looks great to me.

As for the cloud I don't know what everyones all up in arms about. After the PSN fiasco (which btw was because Sony was stupid, not because hackers are all powerful, it doesn't work that way) places will be doubling up on security.
I personally would love being able to go from my home desktop to my laptop, to my school or work computer and being able to access all the same files with ease. 

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Jonthomasdesigns

Any word on Windows Media center ? Anything new ?

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Caboose

That's something that I'm very interested in. I found that Windows 7 Media Centre was leaps and bounds better than Vista and well... anything is better than XPMCE.

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DJSPIN80

8 will fail:

1.  The ribbon bar on EVERYTHING.  Users hate complexity and the ribbon bar adds a level of complexity/abstraction to what should be an easy find.

2.  Even if they do support ARM, who cares?  ARM designs usually require copious amounts of optimizations on all levels.  This is why Android and iOS are their own kernels; Apple and Google revamped the OS and streamlined it to work with a very RISC design.  I doubt Microsoft will manage their code bloat at all.

3.  Cloud integration?  For what?  It's another layer of confusion for people - that is, more ways for people to get spammed.

4.  Portable spaces has promise but I doubt it'll be done right in Windows 8.

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Cregan89

1. How the hell does the ribbon bar add complexity/abstraction? Before the ribbon bar you had to search through toolbar trees in order to get to the functions you wanted. With the ribbon bar the functions are displayed upfront. So without the ribbon: minimum 2 clicks + tree searching VS with the ribbon: maximum 2 clicks without any trees... You can argue that the functions are no longer in the same place they used to be, so you'll have to relearn the locations, but there is no way that you can argue that the ribbon is more complex/abstract than the alternative, it is the complete opposite.

2. Android and iOS are their own kernels because they are originally smart phone OS's. Microsoft designed a separate OS for smart phones as well, Windows Phone 7. It has nothing to do with ARM really. And yeah ARM does require copious amounts of optimizations, that's why Microsoft pays their software engineers a lot of money to write those optimizations... You of all people (having a Tux avatar) should know that it's quite common to design OS's which support multiple architectures.

3. "Cloud integration? For what?" Ummm... A million different reasons, most of which relate to actually reducing confusion for people. Basically, you have one Windows user name, and no matter what device and what location you logon with that user name, you will always have the same files, applications, and settings available to you. No more "syncing" your phone or tablet, no more need to carry around external storage... It has absolutely nothing to do with spam. So how exactly does this make things more confusing for people?

4. Yeah because it's not like Microsoft's Engineers aren't considered some of the most talented in the industry... Oh wait.

5. You're an idiot.

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warptek2010

As for the "Cloud Integration", i.e. one logon for everything which I assume to also include your desktop. Well, it's not enough for you that every other week you hear about some company losing people's personal information, having personal data compromised, email addresses stolen, Identity theft at an all time high. All this means is people (including myself) will become ever more worried and paranoid about oh... little things like, I dunno, having some criminal in Belgrade stealing your ss number or credit card info. 

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wbrice83186

It's taken me a while to get used to the ribbons, but I have been able to utilize them quickly. It's the getting over the decade of XP use that makes it hard to acclimate.

With the cloud support, I'd like to see a better, seamless syncronicity between my Windows desktop, Windows laptop, Windows Phone 7 handset, Xbox Live, Zune HD and Zune marketplace, and a future Windows tablet. I want everything I purchase to be available in every format (alright, yeah I won't be able to play Xbox games on my tablet, but I'm talking about music videos, television episodes, movies). I want them all to talk to each other and give me the option of which item wins when a conflict arises and what media can be shared from a Windows Home Server. I have all Windows stuff; I just want it to communicate better with itself.

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TsunamiZ

i wish they would get rid of all the blue tinting in the unrecolorable backgrounds of the interface.  go back to gray so it will work with more color schemes.

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Keatah

What the hell?? I picture cloud computing as this gasseous nebula emanating from my ass..

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Keatah

What the hell?? I picture cloud computing as this gasseous nebula emanating from my ass..

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KingKaname

No one mentioned DX 12. Is Microsoft going to force us to buy new video cards next year when this OS launches? I ask this because it seems (and I may be wrong) that everytime a new version of Windows rolls out, a new version of D3D is launched as well (and I'm just getting settled in w/ me new 6800). Also, will they pull the "Oh and you need Win 8 to run D3D 12 games" card on us? Other than that, I have no interest in Windows 8. Windows 7 is fine for now.

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Cregan89

So would you prefer them to not ever update DirectX again? Seriously, that's the dumbest argument I've ever heard. New DirectX versions are released to introduce new API's which improve the graphics of your games. DirectX is also backwards compatible (to a certain extent of course) so they are in no way forcing you to buy new graphics cards. And so what if Microsoft didn't bring DirectX 10 to Windows XP. It was a 6 year old OS! It obviously would have required a significant amount of work to port DirectX 10 to XP, and it would have limited DirectX 10 as a whole.

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warptek2010

"It obviously would have required a significant amount of work to port DirectX 10 to XP, and it would have limited DirectX 10 as a whole."

I am not a software engineer but I ask you quite honestly. When ever you upgrade your video card drivers to the latest version, right before downloading the newest drivers you read the OS requirements and what hardware is supported. You usually see a very LONG list of hardware that's supported from say as an example... Radeon HD 4800 series to Radeon HD 6990 series. Do you really think that if you own the video card at the bottom of the list that it will make use of ALL of the driver features? Especially those geared towards the higher end of the spectrum??? 

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someuid

He's not arguing against upgrades to Microsoft's products.  He's arguing against Microsoft bundling them in a way to force you to move to a new platform.  While Microsoft sells this as some sort of compatability issue, or an effort to 'maintain customer experience', we all know it is what it is: forcing you to move to a new OS when you're doing just fine with what you have.

The different is subtle.  If Microsoft needs to end support for an old product for coding and support and porting purposes, they need to just END the product.  Instead, Microsoft tries to convince you it had no other choice but to restrict their upgrades to a certain platform and hope you'll just blindly go along with it.  For those who know better, it sure does leave a sour taste in your mouth and makes you suspicious of every product decision Microsoft makes.

If Microsoft would just cut to the chase and end support for older products, this wouldn't be such an issue.  However, telling us little white lies only makes their problem worse.  Mixing their professional and home use products makes it just as bad as well because now they have to help businesses keep old software running while trying to convince home users to move to the latest and greatest.

What a fine mess they have created.

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warptek2010

I think you may have misunderstood my post. I was not arguing for MS but against the fact they chose NOT to port or include DX10 to XP. By making the video card driver analogy I was making the case that MS's reasons for not porting or including are purely bogus IMO. Video card manufacturers basically write ONE driver (okay maybe two drivers, one for 32bit and one for 64bit) that covers a whole family of GPU devices from the lowest class of a given 'family' of GPU's to the highest. MS could have made DX10 compatible with XP from the get go and let higher Windows versions use features aimed for the higher class OS while maintaining backward compatibily. They knew they were screwing a lot of PC gamers who chose to stay with XP. They did it on purpose so that gamers would stay on the relentless upgrade path to Vista and beyond.

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bautrey

SO BASICALLY, for power users Windows 8 is shit...  its all for the tablets.

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Cregan89

Just because Microsoft is revamping the whole Windows interface to be touch friendly doesn't mean that there are no new features for power users to enjoy. For example, Windows 8 is finally including iso mounting right into the shell by default, it has pdf support by default, and I believe I read somewhere that it adds shell support for more compression formats such as rar and 7zip. I'm a power user and a developer, and I don't see any reason why interface improvements aren't a big positive for us as well. They should make it simpler and more efficient for us to do the things we want to do. And look at it this way, if this whole touch screen interface is executed well, it will give us the ability to perform power user functions on light-weight tablet devices since they're running Windows. I would personally LOVE the ability to manage an entire IT department on an iPad like device (with a slide out keyboard though would be perfect!).

And realistically, I'm sure there are a whole bunch of other power user features as well but they don't get highlighted in the media nearly as much as these more obvious interface features. The one thing I'm really hoping for though, is for Microsoft to cut out a huge chunk of the uncommon drivers, optional software features, and other bloat from the default install and make them available online instead. 13GB for a clean OS install is way too much, especially since they're planning on bringing Windows 8 to tablets.

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bautrey

I guess i'll have to wait longer until Windows help can actually help. 

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thetechchild

Portable Workspace is essentially a fill-in for a feature power users have been wanting for a long time now : portable installations of Windows. While possible in limited form (PE) or VMs, a full installation is, AFAIK, very difficult to pull off, and usually breaks upon moving to a computer with completely different hardware.

However, judging from this article, while Windows 8 is taking steps like Portable Workspace towards more power user features, the main motive is still excessive, bloaty features that attract ignorant consumers.

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stinger608

I have to agree with you here Bautrey! That would seem to be the basis of the Windows 8. Just seems like an overkill for a mobile operating system. Good point man!!!

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livebriand

I don't like that new ribbon design in explorer. It's great for MS Word, but for explorer, many of those options don't need to be showing all the time, taking up space. I prefer Windows 7's explorer.

 

Is the 'Portable Workspace Creator' something that creates a bootable USB drive? COOL! Not just for work, but for troubleshooting and file rescue too! Maybe I don't need a linux disc for that then.

 

And why does the second screenshot say that Windows isn't genuine? Does Microsoft pirate their own OS? LOL

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Cregan89

I'm hoping that Microsoft includes an option to make the ribbon auto-hide and show on mouse-over, and they make it possible to customize individual tabs. Then I can see the ribbon being extremely useful in explorer!

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hammeredtoast

Man, I would love to see a fully functional version of Windows anything on a tablet.

 

I almost buy an iPad 2 every time I see they're in-stock. You know why? Comixology. I just don't wanna' pay that inflated Apple price. I want a tablet for comics, but there isn't any other option right now.

 

God, in 2 years digital comics will be huge. I know I should wait, but dammit, it's tough!

 

And this portable workspaces thing, man! I likey.

 

Yeah, I talk like that. I say things like "I likey."

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Dartht33bagger

I hope I can turn off the ribbon menu's.....I obsolutely hate those things in office 2007.  If office 2003 had .docx support without the compability update that converts the file to .doc, I'd still be using office 2003.  The layout is so much nicer IMO.

 

The whole cloud thing is stupid as well.  I've never been a fan of it, and I'm still not a fan of it.

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Neufeldt2002

Have to agree with the other posters on the whole cloud issue. My ISP just sent me a notice saying that they are increasing the dl speed to 25Mbps but my cap is still the same. Which means that I can now dl my limit in half the time that it would normally take, and paying the extra $40 - $50 a month for a little bit more is totally unrealistic. Cloud, streaming movies, etc. came to late in the game to be changers here in Canada, and now that the ISP's can basically charge what they want for a small amount of bandwidth, I can't see anything that would make them change. Would also like to see 32bit finally killed.

Please make publish to facebook opt-in, not opt-out.

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Cregan89

The cloud features in Windows 8 are based off of the Windows Live Mesh framework. It's not data streaming so much as it is data mirroring. So you choose which folders to keep in sync per device, and Windows 8/Live Mesh makes sure that your data is automatically and transparently synced across all of those devices. And the service uses peer-to-peer transfers when available as well. So if you download a bunch of music on your home computer connected to a home network, and your Windows Phone is also wirelessly connected to the same network, that music will automatically be copied directly from your PC to your phone over that internal network. So no internet usage occurs at all.

Like I said, these exact features already exist for free as Windows Live Mesh. I've been using it in Canada for over a year now and I can assure you that unless you are consistently downloading and syncing massive files over the internet and not on a home network, you will never have any problem with internet usage. Windows 8 is simply integrating these features right into the OS.

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Neufeldt2002

The only use I would have for the cloud is for file backups and accessing files at different locations. Since my backups are rather large, and file transfers at other locations can be large at times, the cloud would eat my bandwidth as a snack. To use as such, since I don't have any devices that require it, would require that I have a bandwidth of at least 250GB a month just to backup my files that I hold dear. At that rate I could backup my files in 4 months and do nothing else at a cost of $200.00 a month. Now unless someone can show me where I can use this as I would like, at a cost that is below $100.00 a month, and without any bandwidth restrictions, I will stick to my original statement.

Please make publish to facebook opt-in, not opt-out.

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afunyun

I think that the Cloud is a fad idea that won't work for things like operating systems. It's too unreliable (not to mention the latency issues) to provide a good experience for computing, and with data caps (Charter, AT&T, etc.) you'll have to pay out the ass to even use a computer. No, I'll take my SSD and HDDs thanks.

 

On data caps: screw them. They do nothing, the same amount of people are going to be using the carrier's network at the end of the month as they are at the beginning of the month. Especially applying to land cable carriers, not nearly enough people use the network at their max speed to load it where bandwidth becomes a concern, except in back woods areas I suppose. All they do is make people who are already paying out their ass for a good connection (me) and intend to use it pay more money for something that really doesnt make sense

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streetking

ditto on both of the previous comments, and furthermore, i dont trust cloud computing. if it is widely accepted, it can spread to other applications and eventually everyone could have all their personal information stored in the cloud. did anyone hear about that little hiccup with the playstation network just recently?? if someone with the skills REALLY wants into something, they can get there. it just might take time.

 

also, do i need a flash drive with 16gb or higher, or higher than 16gb? there is a difference...

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Caboose

"also, do i need a flash drive with 16gb or higher, or higher than 16gb? there is a difference..."

Only for the portable profile bit. "16GB or higher" and "or higher than 16GB" are 2 different statements. The first indicates that it will work with a USB drive capacity of 16GB or larger (larger = better). The other statement indicates that a drive larger than 16GB is required.

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Phantom-e

I don't put much credence in the cloud.  I belive solid state drives will be the next best thing for data storage.

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pmassey31545

Why such a big deal. Not ever really gonna catch on mainstream. People want what they want at their fingertips on their machine. Not in a "limbo cloud' somewhere. And like Hamburger said-ISP's will lock it down if you do too much. YAWN!!!!

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Hamburger

Given the unreliability of Cloud Computing as well as data caps imposed by ISPs, I'm giving the "Cloud Integration" within Windows 8 a yawn.

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