Steam: Savior or Slayer of PC Gaming?

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TommM

That was an excellent read.  Although it seems like everyone is waiting for the other shoe to drop (as in limiting or over-charging for games) that Steam could easily do with it's current popularity, it hasn't happened yet.  And I honestly don't see it happening as we would have seen it by now and it just doesn't seem to be the way they choose to run their business.

I own (and this is embarrassing) 95 games on Steam. I love the fact that I don't have to screw around with patches, can play my games on any PC and can easily keep in touch with friends.

However, it's not all paradise.  I have encountered a few games where complete functionality is not there.  For example, in multi-player Unreal Tournament, it's impossible to invite other players.  Checking the Steam forums, this is a well known bug, but Steam is not addressing it.  Also, I would like an option where I could log-on without friends knowing it.  Sometimes I want to just play a game on my own without interruption.  And near impossible to do - as soon as I log-on, I'm instantly getting pinged to join a friend in some game.  Lastly, I miss having game manuals.  I know sometimes .pdf versions are made available that you have to print on your own.  But it was always a treat to buy the physical game, sit down with a cup of coffee and really go through the manual before jumping in.  Guess I'm old school in that regard.

BUT...those are minor complaints.  As it stands now, unless someone comes up with a better system, I'll be using Steam for as long as they're around.

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Ghok

I've run into a number of games that have actually been unplayable due to a well known bug that no one would fix. It's easy to say it's not Valve's problem, and the fault of the developer... but it kind of is Valve's problem if there are people using their service to buy games and they're not working. So far it's only happened to me with older games I've bought in huge packs and didn't care too much about to begin with.

I miss manuals a lot, but it's not like you're likely to get a nice one (if one at all) in a game bought at a retail location. And not for some time now... unless things have changed.

I agree, a checkbox next to the login screen that allowed you to sign onto Steam in invisible mode would be very nice option for those who'd want it.

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Holly Golightly

I think the Steam FanBoys are simply brainwashed. Everybody knows that Steam is trying to Consolize the PC Gaming market. They try very hard to be like XboxLive, and compete against them even though they are in different markets. 

I can futher prove that Steam FanBoys are brainwashed because they are willing to not get a great quality game (BattleField3) because it is not available through Valve's online store. It is as if Steam has become a drug to some people.

I may be an old school gamer, but I have always preferred the freedom to play without running an mandatory client in "offline" mode. The fact that your content is locked to an account in a client, has to be far the dumbest thing I have ever seen.

I do not feel that Steam is going to bring forth the golden age of digital distribution. I feel it will be the death of PC gaming for sure. Why? Easy! Steam region locks their game. Yes, region lock them, like DVDs. I should not have the internet to prove where I am from. I purchased the game, that's that.

Yes, Steam sales are tempting, but I would not fall for that wolf in sheeps clothes. I wont lock myself to a platform that is identicle to a console like XboxLive. Steam Fans are a victim of their own blindness, and will defend a digital store front till death, no matter how good another game is.

The fact that you need to run a client is just silly. Windows 7 is my client. Why do I need another client to run my games? Windows 7 has done a great job as is. Steam just adds more clutter by adding yet another program I do not want to use.

Retail games should never require steam. Digital distribution and boxed copies should never mix. Why some hard copies require Steam is beyond me. There are some great games that don't have DRM, perhaps the industry should follow them. Cryostasis anyone?

There is some competition out there most people are to hardcore for Steam to even care about. Look at Game Comrade. A digital manager for your games that does not force you to use it. It seems people like being forced to use certain things. Hence why people buy from Steam. 

I, and many other people will miss the days when the PC platform was truly platform free of all the BS. Great times indeed. I will admit, the consoles have won the war by consolizing the PC Gaming platform... We are looking at some dark times right now. Sigh, I raise my white flag.

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Svetty Parabols

I think the Steam FanBoys are simply brainwashed. Everybody knows that Steam is trying to Consolize the PC Gaming market. They try very hard to be like XboxLive, and compete against them even though they are in different markets. 

How are they trying to be like XBox Live when Valve and Steam were created first? Their business model was created way before XBox Live was even thought of.

I can futher prove that Steam FanBoys are brainwashed because they are willing to not get a great quality game (BattleField3) because it is not available through Valve's online store. It is as if Steam has become a drug to some people.

So If someone doesn't buy a game YOU may like or dislike, they are brainwashed? Also what makes BF3 such a high quality game? Is it the innovative gameplay of running around with a gun and shooting other people? We have never seen a game like that before have we? Oh wait.. Doom, Quake, Castlevania, Borderlands, Gears of War, Unreal, Unreal Tournament.......

I may be an old school gamer, but I have always preferred the freedom to play without running an mandatory client in "offline" mode. The fact that your content is locked to an account in a client, has to be far the dumbest thing I have ever seen.

Guess what..Some people don't mind the client in the background. It's called CHOICE. IF you do not choose to use Steam..fine, God bless you and your choice not to use it. Others though, choose to use it and they are not the "brainwashed" zombies you seem to think they are.

BTW.."old school gamer" is just a self given title to let people think they are better in some way than other people. Just because you or I have been playing computer games since the invention of Pong does not mean anything other than the fact we wasted years of our lives when we could have been being more productive.

I do not feel that Steam is going to bring forth the golden age of digital distribution. I feel it will be the death of PC gaming for sure. Why? Easy! Steam region locks their game. Yes, region lock them, like DVDs. I should not have the internet to prove where I am from. I purchased the game, that's that.

Who said Steam was going to bring forth the "Golden Age of Digital Distibution"? They are a company like any other. They are in business to make money just like any other business. They just happen to be exceptional at doing it because they know how to treat their customer right. Offer a product at a fair price and you will be sucessful. This is what they do..nothing more.

Yes, Steam sales are tempting, but I would not fall for that wolf in sheeps clothes. I wont lock myself to a platform that is identicle to a console like XboxLive. Steam Fans are a victim of their own blindness, and will defend a digital store front till death, no matter how good another game is.

Oh god..you are right. Why would I want to spend $5.00 on a game tied to Steam when I can get it elsewhere for $20.00 and not be tied to Steam. What the hell was I thinking?

The fact that you need to run a client is just silly. Windows 7 is my client. Why do I need another client to run my games? Windows 7 has done a great job as is. Steam just adds more clutter by adding yet another program I do not want to use.

Win7 is not a client, It is ,however, a operating system. A game is a client no matter if you are using Steam or not. You can't run a game if you don't have an operating system, right?

Secondly, If you use a dedicated chat program like Skype or AIM, guess what, your computer is already cluttered. Steam has voice chat and instant messaging built in which actually reduces the need for other communication programs. So, in Fact, Steam is reducing the clutter on your computer.

Retail games should never require steam. Digital distribution and boxed copies should never mix. Why some hard copies require Steam is beyond me. There are some great games that don't have DRM, perhaps the industry should follow them. Cryostasis anyone?

There is some competition out there most people are to hardcore for Steam to even care about. Look at Game Comrade. A digital manager for your games that does not force you to use it. It seems people like being forced to use certain things. Hence why people buy from Steam. 

The only retail games that actually REQUIRE Steam that I am aware of are the ones made by Valve. No one is forcing you to do anything. If you want to buy a boxed game, please do so but, don't make assumtions of which you no nothing about. No one is forcing you to use Steam.

I, and many other people will miss the days when the PC platform was truly platform free of all the BS. Great times indeed. I will admit, the consoles have won the war by consolizing the PC Gaming platform... We are looking at some dark times right now. Sigh, I raise my white flag.

PC gaming was wonderful back in the late 80s and early 90's. You went to the store and bought a $30 game and took it home. Then you took 30 to 40 minutes trying to get it installed. Then you would spend an hour or two trying to manually configure the game to work for your peticular computer. Then, if you wanted to use a joystick, you had to spend another half hour trying to get those settings to work and calibrating the joystick. Yes, it was truly free of the bulls**t we have to put up with today. How can anyone tolerate being able to just paying online for a game, downloading and installing it without much interaction on the user's part and being about to play it in all the time it took you back in the 80's to drive to the store.

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optionboy16

I couldn't agree with you more!  I do hear on the internet a lot about how games are a pain in the ass to play today.  I remember playing Aces over Europe, X-Wing, Tie Fighter, X-Com, and Masters of Magic ALL the time.  Anyone remember boot discs?  You basically booted your PC DIRECTLY into the game because our comps resources couldn't handle Windows 3.1 AND the game.   My dad and I would spend $40 bucks on a game, and then spend all afternoon trying to get "Soundblaster" to work.  After awhile, we got pretty good at it.  I remember one day, my dad bought a brand new top of the line Compaq desktop.  He also bought a car racing game, and it took us FOUR HOURS just to get it to play.  When N64 and Playstation One game came around, my dad and I pretty much took a long break from the PC.   Just to be able to put a disc, or cartridge in and have it WORK right away was a big selling point.  You mean a gaming system for 300 bucks that just WORKS vs 1800 bucks for a PC that you have to fight with all the time?  As soon as gaming companies, hardware companies and vendors started using the internet to gather information and put out patches to ease the problem of compatibility, I started back in PC gaming.  Steam has almost worked flawlessly since it came out.  I cannot tell you how many times I accidently scartched a CD, lost the manual that had the "DRM" codes in it, or lost the 4th disk out of 7.  I can just redownload the game, and off I go!

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Andacious

"Retail games should never require steam. Digital distribution and boxed copies should never mix. Why some hard copies require Steam is beyond me."

I agree. Steam should only exist online and never in an innocent retail game. Requiring steam when you have the physical disk is a low blow and makes physically purchasing the game just as unsatisfactoy as digitally purchasing it. Once Steam becomes less power-hungry I might take a second look.

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Holly Golightly

I know. Gosh I hope game developers read this. Because there still is a market out there for physical copies. Steam is like the Wallmart of the pc gaming industry. Dirt cheap and unsatisfying. Andacious, I thought I was alone on the whole physical is better than digital. I like to have a library to show off. But now many games are digital only. It is like fighting a losing battle. Gosh, I hope Steam does change their attitude.

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Nyarlathotep

Your comments always make me chuckle Holly. If you don't want a client running don't use Steam. To call everyone who says Steam is okay with them fanboys is pretty narrow minded. For me the positives far outweigh the negatives. If something better comes along I'll use it.

I am really looking forward to BF3 and will buy it on Steam if it's there. If it's not I'll buy it somewhere else. If individuals will not buy because it's not on Steam that's their choice and you can't blame Valve.

To claim that Steam will lead to the end of PC gaming in sensationalism at best.

I am not saying that your opinion is invalid just that I disagree.

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Holly Golightly

How can anybody be okay with having their digital rights taken away? The fact is, these people are making this platform so popular. I don't understand why. It limits your freedom down to your region and you must have the internet atleast every month so it can update. They take these small freedoms away, and people are still fine with it, it makes me think that these people are brainwashed. See, what Steam does is they get you hooked. A few games you want are on sale, and then by the time you know it, you are buying every game from their client. Making Steam more like a drug because so many people are addicted to it that companies label Steam a platform. Yes, some games use the Steam logo instead of the PC logo on their commercials for games. Believe that! I just don't understand why anyone would be okay with a platform that limits the very freedom PC gamers have enjoyed for decades. To me, it must be brainwashing. I don't know how to put it any better. Sorry if I have offended anyone on here. Just look at the full timeline of PC gaming from the dawn of its creation till now. You too will see those freedoms being stipped away thanks to Valve and their highly addictive Steam client. Sigh...

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DoctorX

ever read a EULA?

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Holly Golightly

You'll be amazed at the fact that the courts often bypass the EULA when corporations are filing suit against individuals. Most of the time, all you have to say is that you never read the EULA. Fact is, it is very rare people ever read these things, and often is not, they don't know their rights either. Sad facts. The industry just needs to do away with DRM and these unread EULAs, because they make the industry look evil and greedy. It does not have to be that complex. If we buy it, we should keep it. But since I need to log onto a client, and can't freely move my game files around makes steam feel more like a rental service of sorts. I find the topic of "purchasing a license" to be rather flakey. Something Microsoft is big on. I think deep down many gamers want to transfer over to Linux. I see Steam like Windows, it is popular because people choose to accept having a license then owning a product. Yes I have Windows 7, and yes, I game on Steam at times. But there is not much of a choice, most games do not support Linux. As a gamer, Windows is the only choice. Probably Steam will be the only choice in the future as many now claim that it is the only thing keeping PC gaming platform alive. Videogames should not have to be this political, but Steam is a bag of controversies. The gaming industry needs to be simplified.

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Andacious

That's a valid argument, we do "sign" our digital rights away when we hit that shiny little accept button :/

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Holly Golightly

But it does not have to be like this. If we support a game that is more opened, then this would be better for the industry I am sure. One of the many benefits and freedoms that come with PC gaming are mods, which looks like will be a thing of the past. All because we are forced to press the "accept" button, and no refunds are allowed if we choose not to accept. That is a shady business practice. Like purchasing from 1 mob exclusively or else. So yes, we do sign our digital rights away when we click that shiny little accept button, but that is because we don't have a choice. We already paid for it, it should be ours.

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DoctorX

That would be great... and i for one think that if i bought something it is mine.. but the fact of the matter is no software on your computer you own.  Even if you run linux, you dont own it... GPL allows you to use a license for unfettered use and access to the source code...but you dont own the code.  Just they code you develop.  

This is a fact of life... not one i like either.  The DVD you have on the self that is a movie or a piece of software is not yours.  You are licensed to use it.  As as for the courts?  They have so far allowed EULAs to be binding.  It hasnt been fully tested in court.  There was the autodesk suit that should have resolved it, but the judge sidestepped that part of the ruling.

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Nyarlathotep

Yes. Why do you ask?

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someuid

Your entire argument against Steam, their millions of users, and all their fans is a single game (BF3) that hasn't even been relelased yet?

You are a paid EA troll and a totally inept human.

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Holly Golightly

Fact is, many hardcore Steam fans said it themselves. They will boycott EA just because it is available on every digital storefront other than Steam. Even though the Steam Fanboys have the option to play non-steam games on Steam. Futher proving them as brainwashed as you are.

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DoctorX

no i boycott EA because they are the Borg and evil.

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AndrewEgel

You know Holly I've followed all your comments on the Steam Vs. Origin debate, and I have to say that I've come to the conclusion that your some EA "viral" ad campaign to blindly promote EA's service with your outlandish remarks such as "I think the Steam FanBoys are simply brainwashed." (M$ did this with Windows 7 - I was one of the ones that did it) I'm a steam user, and I'm not brainwashed. I just want to address some of your false arguments you presented:

"Steam region locks their game."

This is independent of steam. There are international laws that require this on content (Think: Korean government censoring their people). You think Origin isn't going to region lock certain games of theirs? Think again.

"The fact that you need to run a client is just silly. Windows 7 is my client. Why do I need another client to run my games? Windows 7 has done a great job as is. Steam just adds more clutter by adding yet another program I do not want to use."

Sure origin doesn't have a client running for their games... for now. You never know. BUT I do know that they will have DRM running for their games, its not some stand alone games like back in the day when DRM wasn't widely around. I will admit that when steam first came out it was a memory hog and was buggy. That has vastly improved over-time and your arguments/opinions are set in the very far past.

The one point I will agree with you on is the people who will boycott Mass Effect 3, BF3 on origin are idiots, because, its their loss for refusing to install one more client. I'll definitely be using origin for games they release, but I find it a bit annoying that I have all the past BFs and MEs in steam, accept for the latest one, but thats not enough to stop me from getting them.

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Holly Golightly

I am not an EA fan girl. I happen to think they make great quality games. It would blow to be forced to log online just to play games like Alice: Madness Returns or The Sims 3. I mean, these are simple 1 player games that don't need the online feature Steam offers.

Region locking is a terrible method of DRM around the world, and is somewhat easy to bypass thanks to P2P sites and ROMs/ISOs found at emulator sites. Region locking is meant for censorship for the most part, but in reality, developers use it to block against certain nations known for their pirating like China and Russia. The advantage to box copies is that I can make my collections grow. I have a British Silent Hill 2, German Silent Hill 3, British Silent Hill 4 and Australian Silent Hill Home Coming. I also have all of the American versions as well. I am a fan of that franchise. Sometimes the foreign versions come with extra features you can not find in the American editions. There is no way I can buy a foreign version of Silent Hill on Steam because my account is region locked to USA. One of the many freedoms PC Gamers USED to enjoy back in the days before Steam's dominance. I really miss those days.

When I try to launch a game that requires Steam (Metro 2033, FallOut New Vegas) it gives it a 3 second delay before launching steam, and then another 2 more just to launch the game. I know this is really petty stuff that does not matter, but this timing can add up if you are using weaker systems or laptops. Believe it or not, it all counts.

Steam takes our freedom away as PC Gamers to enjoy foreign titles, or old games that are not in their library.  Steam is making PC Gaming feel more like Xbox. All you need to do is connect the Xbox controller to your PC, and boom, the console dominance has influenced the PC Gaming market.

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szore

The little Commie is right.

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Holly Golightly

Thanks fugly.

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Marthian

Like Kinetic said, there's a ton of people that use Steam that aren't brainwashed. In my opinion, Steam isn't really the savior or destroyer of PC gaming, but it is one thing that is keeping it alive, that's pretty much a given fact.

As for those "Not on Steam = Not buying" people, those people are not really bright, but then again, idiots are everywhere (I hear people only own an Xbox 360 JUST for Call of Duty or Halo). I bought Bad Company 2 off EA's gamestore because it was on sale at the time, and as soon as I find a good cheap place, I'll buy BF3. Heck, I even registered my Crysis 2 from Steam on my EA account.

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DoctorX

no... i am in the not on STeam = not buying because i am F*cking sick of fixing mine and others pc from the DRM viruses that the retards put on the pc.  I dont buy the Steam games with other DRM in there for that exact reason.  The result?  I do not have to fix either mine or my son's pc.  EA are the Borg.. and they have been before there was PC Gaming... yes i am that old.  

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Slurpy

Wait, Steam fans are brainwashed because they are refusing to buy EA's "great game" BF3 which won't be released for three months?  Who, exactly, is brainwashed here?

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Holly Golightly

Didn't you read the article at all? There are Steam Fanboys seriously stating they will boycott EA just because a game is not available there? Talk about stupidity at best!

They blame EA for removing Crysis 2 when it was Valve all this time! Read this article you have been missing out on. Read the comments too. They STILL blame EA for something Valve did. This shows how narrow minded they are. I stand by my opinion about them being brainwashed. How about a wake-up call for once?

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/what_twist_valve_%E2%80%93_not_ea_%E2%80%93_removed_crysis_2_steam

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DoctorX

amen!  sounds  more like EA fanboys and girls to me.  

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Holly Golightly

Just stating the facts Dr.SteamFanBoy

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DoctorX

you are misinformed... I dont buy any EA games.  They suck.. not worth the money... i hate their DRM... And they are the Borg. Is that plain enough for you?  You are not stating the facts... you are stating an opinion... one that isnt shared by everyone.  YOu are entitled to your OPINION, but the facts are BF3 is a yawn for me.  Crysis 2 is a yawn for me.  I got Crysis and was bored quickly.  Never finished it.  I hate EA (and Activision is coming at a close second) due to the way they conduct business.  

The fact of the matter is this... Steam/Valve treats us as customers... everyone else treats us as possible criminals... I speak with my wallet.

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Holly Golightly

Why do you hate so much? If it wasn't for competition, Valve would have made Steam a much aggressive, greedy, expensive platform to deal with. This is what all monopolies tend to do. 

I have my opinion, but I have provided you links to back my discussion up. 2 exactly. One from Steam forums and the other from Maximum PC themselves. I do not know what else can prove my points valid.

I would guess you hate EA and Activision because those are the 2 largest corporations that produce games and they tend to buy out everyone. Mergers, hostile takeovers, and buy outs are anti-competitive and counter productive. No two ways about it. I can understand your hate, but Valve isn't exactly so innocent.

Do you know what Valve, Ubisoft, and OnLive have in common? They all require you to always have an internet connection just to play. You never know what natural disaster could make your reliable internet connection suddenly become unreliable. Sometimes it could be unemployement may be the cause of you not having internet. It could also be prices. Granted we live in a world that is digitally connected, but you should not rely on the internet for everything. Definitely not to be able to access your paid content.

Videogames are expensive. If I am going to pay $60, I better own it without any strings attached. You may not have a problem with Steam now, but when your PC's creditentials expire, and you have no broadband... You will understand what all the controversy is about.

Valve requires you to run the Steam client for every game you buy from them, which technically makes Steam/Valve treat you like the criminal. Why? Because you are required to run the client to make sure you do not do any criminal activity, like pirating. At least most of the other companies give you a certain level of trust. So they do not require silly things like a mandatory client or a consistent internet connection just for you, the gamer to simply have fun. 

You speak from your wallet, but I speak from my heart.

 

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Kinetic

I'm not a fanboy of the service what so ever, in fact I'm pretty ambivalent to steam. That said, I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Is Steam a "Savior" of pc gaming? No. But it isn't a destroyer either. What it is, is a game client. It does its job and also sometimes sells games for uber cheap. The only thing I really like about it is that I can play my entire library of Steam games online or offline without a disk.
I'd hesitate to compare it to PSN or Xbox live mainly due to the fact that games people actually want to play are regularly on sale on Steam. What goes on sale on Live? Shirts for an Avatar? A new theme? It would be nice to do away with all the clients like Origin, Steam, Impluse, etc. and just be able to download our games direct from some central hub, drm free. But this will never happen, and as much as multiple game clients suck, the competition they create between each other is a win for us all.

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Holly Golightly

The thing that is giving steam trouble with developers is that it forces you to run a client that sells you games from their competitors at a low price. Granted this is an advantage to the customer, but nobody wants their gamers to be deterred away from their games. That is why companies like EA created solutions like Origins.

Okay, so comparing Steam to Xbox Live was a bit far out from me. 2 completely different markets that don't compete on the same exact level. But atleast I do not have to have an internet connection to play games on an xbox or playstation. Steams "offline mode" is only valid for 30 days. After that, you must connect online. Fact is, gaming shouldn't have to be this political.

DRM sucks, and Steam should be more like GoG which is actually free of any DRM, while Steam runs 2 DRMs. It is not fair to us gamers who pay full price for these digital downloads. Also, there was once a time when you can play PC games without having a CD in the drive. I only remember that format of DRM in the mid 2000s.

Today, there are a few games which you can buy boxed copies and not have it run in your optical drive to play each and every time. Games like Cryosasis is great in giving us gamers that very freedom. I knew that requiring gamers to have the CD in the drive was not going to last long. Thanks to wonderful programs like Alcohol120% and Daemon Tools. But there is no two ways around Steam. You either play the game and log onto the client automatically, or you don't play your game at all. This method of DRM (which is usually 2 by the way) is just as aggressive as StarForce and Sony's RootKits. In a world of DRM, we all lose.

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Kinetic

You do make some good points, such as offline mode only being valid for thirty days (which up until now I never knew about, I guess I'm never unplugged for that long) and region locking of accounts. However neither really affect me, which is why I'm willing to overlook both. As for DRM, I believe you're incorrect. Like others have mentioned if a second level of DRM is present it is likely at the behest of the publisher and not the client.

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Holly Golightly

Yes, I found that out the hard way. I had satelite internet from WildBlue and was seriously limited due to data caps of only 17GB. When I exceeded my allowed amount, I stood without broadband for almost a month till the data limits were refreshed by the next month. Now, I have not logged into Steam for a while during that time, so it was a little more than a month... Probably 2 technically for Steam. That is when Steam displayed a message about my PCs credentials being expired, and that I needed to re-log back online. I guess this is their way of fighting the possibility of account sharing? I am not sure. I will include the link at the bottom of this message. Most companies usually include their own DRM. Some Steam titles use Games for Windows Live so you have to sign in to 2 accounts. One for Steam the other for Games for Windows Live. And then some games even require you to register a key pin which is from Securom. Making that 3 layers of security against the gamer. Fact is, we should not have to log online just to play a game. And now with broadband data caps taking place worldwide, we need to have games not waste away our valuable, yet limited data. This is why I am against having games require online connectivity. Especially 1 player games. But Steam's stance is the exact opposite. Great for people with unlimited Internet... Which is a dying term these days. Anyhow, check out the link, you will see what I mean.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1659383.html

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Kinetic

That kind of situation always sucks, and I'm actually pretty irked knowing that if I ever need to cancel my internet, or move back to the an area where my only option is satellite internet (which I refuse to sign with for the exact type of thing that you just talked about happening to me) that I would eventually lose access to my Steam library. I don't foresee this situation happening anytime soon but the fact alone is really irritating. I do understand why they do it though, if they didn't I'd assume people would just download everything they could fit on a drive, clone it or copy the data, then sell it to be used in offline mode. I don't think you have to worry about a login every month or so draining too much bandwidth though thankfully. I only use an average of 30GB every month out of my allotted 150GB, and I tend to play online a lot, and download programs, patches, and digital games/content all the time. Although I'm still very much against caps to begin with, and that's almost double what you have to work with.
The only Steam game I have that uses Steam and Live are DoW 1 & 2, which is really bizarre since I installed them from a disk, and they integrated themselves with Steam on their own. I can still launch them independently from steam via my games folder, but I agree that if I launch them from Steam I shouldn't have to log in to Live.

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DoctorX

ok.. i am calling BS... there is only one DRm on Steam.. if there is a second, it is from the publisher.

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Ghok

She's gone on record before as saying she likes the X-Box live stuff stuff like avatars. Which is fine. Some people do. She just doesn't seem to be able to understand that there are those of us who like Steam, and we're loading it up to play our games because we LIKE it, not because we're being forced to. She brings up this "Steam fanboy" crap and starts insulting the userbase every time there's an article about Steam. It's nice to have alternative opinions, but her arguments have never made any sense and tend to be flame bait.

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DoctorX

I love the interface... I have all my other non steam games in the steam client as well.  

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Holly Golightly

So what if I like gaming on consoles as well. Ever heard of the term "best of both worlds"? I am not going to avoid a game I desire just because it is not available on a certain platform. Just like I am forced to use Steam just to play retail versions of Metro 2033 and FallOut New Vegas. Why would anyone in their right mind like being forced to run a client each and every single time they want to play a game? What EA has done was give us gamers a breath of fresh air, a choice we can all enjoy, a chance to play a game without having a client trying to get more money from us by seducing us to games we probably did not want, all for a tempting sale. There are people who talk about having more than 200 steam titles, that is insane. There is no way they beat all of those titles and have unlocked every single content of each game. Unless they don't have a job and stay at the basement all month long gaming... But then how do they get the money to take advantage of those sales? Back at my point, if you like being forced to run a client, then something is wrong with you. The reason why many gamers game on the PC (atleast old school gamers like myself) is because we like the freedom to game whatever, whenever, however we feel like. A luxury unknown to console gamers. You take that away, and all you have is a PC version of a console, which is exactly what has Steam done. Perhaps Steam Fanboys were all once hardcore console gamers? The growth isn't coming from old school pc gamers and I would guess not much first time gamers... So my guess is, Steam people like not having luxuries because they are always forced onto something. Now that Steam does that, PC and Consoles are one in the same. But atleast consoles give you the option of not having the internet to play... Making consoles today, the less of 2 evils. Sigh, this is why I say Steam Fanboys are brainwashed. And for the record, you produce tons of flame bait. Maybe you will reply for once.

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Ghok

I don't respond to most of your posts for a few reasons. One being that I don't tend to want to go back several pages to look for old articles. Another is that we've argued all these things before, and the final one being that you just aren't very good at arguing to begin with.

I never said you couldn't or shouldn't like consoles. I actually said pretty much the opposite. You're STILL going on about brainwashed fanboys, and now you've added a talking point on how Steam is an addictive seducer? Come on. This isn't a debate.

I actually agree with a lot of what you say is negative about Steam, as do most of the "Steam Fanboys" here. You can read the posts to this article and you can see that. You can also see my listing the things I don't like about Steam, including many things that you don't mention. The difference between Steam users and you is that we consider these things to be worth the overall experience. We do, you don't. That's okay... but you just don't get that. Saying I like to be "forced" to use a gaming client is silly. Do I like the requirement of having a client running while I play a game? No, not really. What's the trade off though? All my games in one place, automatically updated, at affordable prices, from any computer with an internet connection. THAT'S THE PART I LIKE, and that's just scratching the surface. I've used other clients and they haven't provided the same advantages or quailty of service. End of story.

A person like you who has limited bandwidth or is often without an internet connection, Steam is obviously not a good choice. There are other clients that would be better for you, but they are not better for me. There are millions of us who aren't in your situation, and we like Steam just fine. Stop insulting us and calling us brainwashed because you can't see our point of view.

 I'm probably much more of an "old school" gamer than yourself. Don't tell me the reasons why I game or what I should  and shouldn't like about PC gaming. I haven't bought a console since the early 90s. The reasons I PC game are alive and well.

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Holly Golightly

As gamers, we do not have to accept flaws. We should not have to go through any flaws if we paid full price or whatever. Yes I understand the auto updates, but even if you live in town that supplies its own internet, you should understand that internet, no matter how secure a place may be, is not always guaranteed. Servers crash, and natural disasters happen. If for any reason you find yourself without a connection for more than a month, you too will be agreeing with me. Hey, I am not going to tell you how to spend your money. If you want to spend $50 on a game that will always check your broadband, that is fine by me. I will continue to game whether or not I have a connection to the web. Sorry...

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Ghok

  This isn't about having to "accept flaws". If I didn't accept any flaws, I wouldn't be able to use ANY clients, because they've all got them. I'm happy to talk about Steam's flaws, while still supporting it. I do think one of those flaws is the need for an internet connection. I just don't think it's a very big one.

If I have no access to internet for 30 days because of a natural disaster, the last thing I'm going to be doing is thinking "GRRR I can't play Left 4 Dead!!!! THAT HOLLY GOLIGHTLY WAS CORRECT! She is just going to continue to game while I'm stuck here in my destroyed internet-free house! NOOOOOO!!!"

Come on, you're stretching. The chances of me going without an internet connection for so long (but still wanting to be able to game) are pretty damn low. I've gone over ten years with a steady internet connection. I'll probably be okay. As I said in my last post, this is a tiny issue (to me) that's a big deal to you. I don't know how you were without internet for 30 days... maybe you went for a vacation on the moon or something; I will admit, Steam is probably not the best client for astronauts. :)

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Holly Golightly

That's my point! All clients have flaws, and we should not be required to run a flawed system! We should be allowed the freedom to run the flawed client if we feel like, not because we have to.

You do not need to travel to space to understand the limits of broadband caps. Although to some Steam people, it is like I am trying to teach them rocket science over and over again.

Now, if you are wondering why I went about a month without an internet connection? Simple, I had WildBlue Pro Package which came with a 17GB cap at a speed of only 1.5Mbps. I downloaded a 10GB game, and somehow, I do not know what the hell happen, but the remaining 7GB were just missing. Maybe from internet ads? YouTube videos? Emails? I do not know. I actually don't keep track of how many KB I use on the internet. 

Natural disasters do not have to happen near your home to lose a broadband connection. Some people live relatively far from where the servers are located. For example, customers in Yonkers have their servers located in Manhattan. Any New Yorker can tell you that is a pretty long distance. But this is where Cablevision has their servers located. Yes, you could be home when your connection can suddenly go down from another city. Stating a natural disaster is just one of many examples. What I am trying to say is, your games should not rely on a connection from another city or state. You purchased it, it should be yours. Point blank.

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Holly Golightly

Gosh darn it, double post!

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I_pwn_newbz86

Oh no! I have to run a client! This is such a HUGE inconvinience and completely takes all the fun out of every single game I play! I seriously have to connect to the internet?! WTF!?!?! How dare they give me an in-game web browser and messenger! I can't believe they make me type in a username and password when the auto-login expires each month and run a client that uses 40MB of my 8GB of RAM. This is an atrocity! Then they tempt me with cheap games that I am FORCED to buy because they're so cheap and I want them! They're EVIL!

 

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Holly Golightly

Wow, very mature, for the record I am not forced to buy Steam games because I don't. I am forced to use Steam thanks to the wonders of SteamWorks, which is an aggressive format of DRM for boxed copies. If there is one thing, digital storefronts and retail copies should never mix. It is the only DRM that tries to sell me stuff. When I do download games, I use Direct2Drive or GamersGate. But yeah, the fact that SteamWorks is becoming more and more common in retail editions of the games, and that makes Valve evil. I do not care about using a browser when I am playing a game. When I want to surf the web, I use FireFox... I mean, why should I launch Steam just to go to MaximumPC? It seems a little redundant in my opinion. As for ingame messenger, that is a great feature, but useless in 1 player games. Also note, not everybody has 8GB of RAM in their rigs, and Steam is not always 40MB. Steam's usage of RAM fluctuates based on activity, if you are using the messenger to talk to several of your buddies while having the Steam Storefront running and a game playing... The 40mb can easily go much more higher, especially for people who have limited amount of RAM while running other programs at the same time.

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I_pwn_newbz86

QQ Holly. 

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DoctorX

You have said several times of publishers having to compete with others on Steam.  You do realize they also promote a bunch of other publishers over Valve's own games dont you?  

consoles suck.   I hate consoles with a passion... Why?  because I hate the companies that make the consoles. Sony with their rootkits and general us vs the world attitude.  Microsoft for being Microsoft.  I have to run windows for other things but gaming.  If linux was a good gaming os i would run that instead.  I hate nintendo for their attitudes. I hate how the consoles are money pits.   I hate the fact that I cannot go into any store to pick up a pc title anymore. (although i saw DNF at target yesterday!)  I hate that consoles that came out 5-7 years ago are still the same price.  They should be $30 now.  I hate that every peripheral, game, etc is god aweful expensive on these 5-7 year old consoles.  I hate the console exclusives.. (halo and halo2 were great games... but no more were release on pc).  I dont want to buy a 360, ps3, and wii just to get the games i want to play.  I hate the multiplayer only games and the single player games are an after thought.

I have plenty of games on my pc. (about 1.5TB at last count)  I use that money to make a kick ass pc that can do a bunch of things... record 4 hd streams at once plus remove commercials... while still be able to game at the same time.  Plus I make wads of money with my pc... when was the last time a console got you a good job?

I am a Steam "fanboy" because it just works.   You apparently slept through the rest of the games in the old days.  Most of them had bad DRM.  The only good DRM was the key only DRM, but those mainly required the disk to be in the drive still.  I am not talking about BF or whatever the flavor of the month is.  I dont like the always on connect either... but your 30 days offline is a bit off.  When i moved to a new job, I didnt have my internet for about 2 months... was able to play all my games.

 

 

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Holly Golightly

The only bad DRM out there is StarForce. That method of DRM is known to destroy computers. I had only 1 game use this, it was a nightmare, and I never installed that game again. Somehow, Starforce made my DVD drive sloooow.

Yes, I hate consoles too. But sometimes the best games are exclusive to consoles. I wish there was a more universal method. Maybe Microsoft will give us a solution to this problem. But until then, I am going to game on both platforms, even though I dislike consoles greatly and dislike Steam passionately. What I want is an absolutely free platform. This is why PC Gaming has lasted so long.

There are plenty of retail stores that still sell boxed copies of PC Games. Just visit your local GameStop, Wallmart, Target, J&R, Best Buy or MicroCenter. Heck, even if you did not live close by to any of these places, you can still order them online via NewEgg or Amazon, which also offer Amazon Digital Game Download if you prefer to download, and have the unlimited high speed broadband.

As for the Steam losing account creditentials during offline mode, it was slightly more than a month since I logged in. I am pretty sure it was probably 2 or even 3 months. I did not keep track. The former broadband company I used had the lousy data caps, and I had to wait, so that is when I discovered that problem. True story, I kid you not!

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DoctorX

securerom was almost as bad.

The gamestop here has zero pc games. Best Buy has one 4ft shelf for pc games... 4-5 row of console games.  walmart has about a dozen games.  target has a few more a couple of dozen.  That is all i have within 6 hours of me.  

I have a 5/50Mb connection... so i am a little biased.  But i download the games and back those up.  When i reinstall i copy them back and just apply the updates.  Steam will be rolling out delta patching in a month or two.  that will help in the bandwidth department.

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