Exclusive: Oil Immersion Cooling Goes Mainstream with Hardcore PC's Reactor
Posted 12/25/08 at 03:12:35 PM by Gordon Mah Ung
Comments
Print
Email
The business background though, doesn’t mean the company will be a success, which is one our main concerns. With its heavy reliance on custom parts (which is the nice way to say proprietary) you would have an expensive paper weight if the company went belly up in a year and you needed a new motherboard two years later.
Klum said the $2.4 million funding the company just received plus the additional second round of funding it is about to receive ensures it’ll be around for some time. The city of Rochester also gave the company a low-interest $200,000 loan last year to create local jobs.
“This is not a Delorean,” Klum said in reference to the famed but failed stainless steel, gull-winged cars of the 1980s. “We’re backed by very good funding sources.”
Klum said the idea with the Hardcore is to break the standard mold of computing. He says the company tips its hats to Voodoo, Falcon and Alienware for paving the way, but the Hardcore is designed to take it to a level not seen before. More than any one, Klum said he and the others at Hardcore hold the big OEMs to blame for not pushing the envelope more since they have far larger budgets. Klum said Apple sort of gets it with its designs but he said it’s a closed off world. Although the Hardcore PC uses many non-standard parts, the nForce 790 SLI Ultra chip is no different than elsewhere and the three GTX280 are simply modified with the blocks to fit in the machine. Standard DDR3 modules will also fit but Hardcore worked with a vendor to meet Milspec ratings for the RAM and to hit higher clocks at lower voltage levels.
Hot chip: The super-hot Nvidia nForce 790i SLI Ultra chipset gets its own liquid block to increase flow over it. There’s also need for heat spreaders on the DDR3 RAM since it’s all bathed in oil.
As close as Hardcore is to selling its machine there are still some sticky detail questions to work out. Like how the hell do you ship an oil-filled PC a thousand miles? Because the machines will eventually leak if left on their side for a few hours, shipping filled can’t currently be done so initial boxes will likely be shipped empty with a method for filling them. The company expects to eventually seal the PCs so they will not leak even if tipped over for an extended period but right now they’ll have to go empty. How exactly will the service work? Top tier service contracts will have factory service similar to other companies that require you to ship the PC back. What about upgrades like GPU or even motherboard? Hard core expects to sell graphics cards outfitted for drop-in to the system (prepare to get a little oily) and even user-installed motherboard upgrades for those who would rather not ship it back for service. When the company introduces its dual processor design based on the chassis, it expects customers to be able to have the machines factory upgraded as well.
The end result of all this is a PC that looks like a prop from a movie set 25 years from now but it’s actually a PC that you can have today.
Inside the Reactor's Core
The Reactor’s chassis is a heavy duty aluminum cast as are the handles and the majority of the external panels. There’s easy access to two fan-cooled, 3.5-inch, SATA hot swap bays are located at the rear of the machine. These can be configured as separate drives, RAID 1 or RAID 0. A top panel also contains an easy to access CMOS reset button and the coin-cell battery. No more digging on the board for the battery.
Don’t put your coins here: A CMOS reset button and easy to access coin-cell battery are hidden under a trap door on top.
The panel on the right side of the case opens to reveal a custom radiator and fans that cools off the liquid. This folds out to give you access the notebook PC optical drive and some of the umbilical cables that connect the system together.
Opening the Reactor is not an easy chore. You’ll need a powered driver to unscrew the 20 screws that holds the Reactor’s core in place and a place that you won’t mind a mess in. You don’t need to it in your garage, but even the most careful person is going to need a roll of Brawny-brand towels after you’re done. Like a turkey in a deep fryer, you’ll need to pull the core out a few inches, disconnect several cables and then you can sling the entire core higher up for access to the board.
Almost there: Pulling the core out of the Reactor is similar to pulling an engine block. Just back out the 20 screws, open two chambers, back the core out a few inches, disconnect the cable umbilical cords and remove the core! Just what you’d do after a hard days work for fun.
This may sound like a two person affair, but Hardcore has it fairly well thought out. There’s a step cut into the chassis that allows you to rest the internals on after you’ve pulled it out a few inches. This allows just one person to pull the core, disconnect the wires and then pull it out further.
Proprietary power supply: Hardcore uses a redundant server-class PSU in the machine. If one dies, the second one kicks in. It does, however, require the same funky server cable that Dell uses in its XPS gaming rigs though.
As you can guess, the board is not something you’ll buy at the Compu-Quik store. This iteration of the Reactor uses a custom board by Tyan. In a first, Hardcore also reached out to Creative Labs to integrate a full X-Fi core as well as a 64MB X-RAM chip on the board. Hardcore said it didn’t just jam it on the board either, it worked with Tyan and Creative to route the wires far away from the power lines in the machine to increase the SNR ratio. Since it’s a full X-Fi part, you’ll get the full EAX5 glory.
Audio ports galore: A full hardware implementation of a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi with added optical SPDIFs are run along one side of the machine.
Primary storage for the machine looks to the future as well. You can boot to either of the 3.5-inch drives in the box but power users will likely use SSDs so Hardcore has three 2.5-inch slots which it outfitted with three Samsung SLC-based SSD drives. These are also submerged and hidden behind a door on the back side of the motherboard. Since mechanical hard drives would not survive in liquid, it’s not recommend that you try to stuff a standard drive in these bays.
Don’t try this with your hard drives: The Reactor uses three Samsung SSD drives mounted behind the motherboard for the primary drives. These are also submersed in oil so we don’t think you should try it with a hard drive as the read heads would likely drown.
i think although the
Submitted by dazza145 on Fri, 12/26/2008 - 10:25pm
i think although the performance would be great how long is it going to last before all the parts go soggy and no longer work
has anyone here bought one because i think you would be foolish
how long? 18 month and
Submitted by nekollx on Sat, 12/27/2008 - 12:11pm
how long?
18 month and counting so far going by previous menieral cooled pcs
Submitted by dtischerd on Thu, 12/25/2008 - 8:45pm
i just jumped on over to their site and priced the baddest of the bad machines...
Reactor ExtremeTotal configuration$12803.00Subtotal.
Submitted by nekollx on Fri, 12/26/2008 - 9:18am
which is still less then a tricked out Mac Pro
This is way, way beyond my
Submitted by I Jedi on Thu, 12/25/2008 - 6:27pm
This is way, way beyond my budget for certain. However, this looks very nice indeed.
Submitted by Digital-Storm on Thu, 12/25/2008 - 5:26pm
Why is old news being ressurected? This was up a long time ago. Same with the 25 Windows tips one.
WIll Already Said Why
Submitted by mitpatterson on Thu, 12/25/2008 - 9:35pm
If you would kindly refernce a post Will made Yesteday:
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/happy_holidays_team_maximum_pc_you
Read the 2nd Paragpah and it tells his planns. But to sum it up for you, He is going to repost some of his favorites from the past year. Since there will be no new news today(holiday, everyone off)
That being Said, you would have known this if you were a real fan. and vistied the site often.
mitpatterson
life just keeps getting better
Submitted by jihnn on Thu, 12/25/2008 - 5:09pm
this puter looks well made the connectors and finish look sweet. i think i'm in love course i'll have to sell my car or truck to own one,, hey anyone need a wife or child.... nope can't have the dog
gimmy a service manual and let me change the oil
i have an unreasonable need to own one of these
Submitted by sampleaccurate on Fri, 12/12/2008 - 10:00am
Very cool looking but totally impractical. The reason noboby has patented this before is that there is no appreciable market for it. In a year from now a standard air or water cooled computer will outperform this and be easily upgradable, while this thing will be a nightmare to upgrade or even maintain. And as others have said, been done before hundreds if not thousands of times. Only thing new is that someone is now trying to sell them as pre-made systems.
Submitted by corefan on Thu, 12/04/2008 - 10:45pm
I'm drooling all over myself looking at the Reactor. What an amazing feat of total liquid submersed glory. I saw the G4TV review of this beast and it appears it's benchmarks even beat out i7. It's the fastest they have reviewed hands down. Benchmarks are looking like 26,400+ that is outstanding. WOW!! I'll bet with some overclock tweakage it can do even better. Wanna bet anyone? I'll be teh 26,400 was the factor set benchmark. If so - wow. My question is who are these guys? Where did they come from? This is too cool.
I have read some of the posts here and wonder if some of you have ever worked on a computer. This thing kicks a$$. Let me check off the innovation lists on this rig: Total liquid submersion (check), 3 SSDs in RAID 0 with direct connects on the mobo (check), two power supplies (check), Intel Quad at 4.2Ghz - I'm sure it can go faster (check), hot swap hard drives (check), 3 vid cards in SLI put on liquid submerged ice (check), custom mobo with X-fi integration (check), and an amazing case design with network I/O easy to reach (check). Tell me, how can you even compare this to anything in the market with so many firsts checked off? It's clearly in a class by itself. Both Alienware and Voodoo must be nervous as hell when they see a start-up company completely out design, out perform and out class their computers. No marketing hype from the two gaming PC sell-outs will make them compete against Reactor. HA HA.
With all my excitement I still have some reservations. Is this for real or some kind of cruel joke. Also, how can the base price on this be $3700? Well, I'm going to find out soon, I'm buying one. I'll let you know how it goes. CAN'T FREAKING WAIT!!!!
typo
Submitted by Stephenh1984 on Tue, 11/18/2008 - 6:54pm
i see a typo, well in the mag not here instead of the first word being "stop" like it is here it is "top"
anyways, i cant wait to get me one of these
edit: nevermind i see the "s"
Submitted by Aengus on Fri, 11/14/2008 - 11:28am
The photos are amazing to look at.. question is what are the specs going to come back as. I am interested in if they are the best cooling system on the market would they work well as a server on 24/7? Just have to wait and see the reviews when they come out.
Submitted by mnpctech.com on Sat, 11/01/2008 - 7:21am
I'll get to see it up close next week during my meeting with the CTO.
wtf?!?
Submitted by pcwizmtl on Wed, 10/29/2008 - 11:45am
all of this and no benchmarks and\or temp readings????
Submitted by nekollx on Thu, 10/30/2008 - 8:15am
well it wont be in production for another couple weeks, this was a "preview" not a "review" after all
Submitted by guiri on Fri, 10/31/2008 - 8:18pm
If nothing else, it's pretty :)
I saw something similar on youtube. Some polish guys dipped a puter in a fish tank but it did work.
Hey, found the link.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9dU10goanM&NR=1
:)
George
I vouche for that haha :D
Submitted by s3th on Mon, 10/27/2008 - 3:37pm
I vouche for that haha :D
Submitted by Windbreaker on Mon, 10/27/2008 - 9:51am
The patents will hold up. One can patent an improvement to a current design. Consider that all Hardcore Computers has done is take a basic computer design and improved its cooling--therefore improving on a current design.
Besides, Cray was immersion-cooling computers back in 1985, before most of you youngsters were born ;)
That being said--there is some very clever and well thought-out design in this box and it is waaay cool. I sincerely hope this box is not the latest BeBox.
Submitted by s3th on Sat, 10/25/2008 - 11:35pm
Im an amateur you could say on custom builds but ever sense Ive wanted to build my own Ive seen many, and this is one hell of beast. The oily messes though switching out pieces will be a tough one and other obvious watch-outs. What I like is surely enough with all this power you wouldn't need a new machine for atleast 5 or 6 years, probably longer, as long as you take care of it.
- Be carefull of knocking it over
- I suggest keeping it on the floor and not elevated if elevated, keep it very low to the ground.
- Have a desk set up thats over a hardwood floor for easier cleaning if a mess does occur for some reason.
- Powerstrips to protect from thunder-storms, etc, or just keep it unplugged during a storm for gauranteed safety.
Just the normal safety measures to ensure the life of this PC through every year.
But overall this is one badass machine and it would take your gaming and video/picture editing fantasies to a place not of this world. It satisfies me in every possible way.
Submitted by nekollx on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 12:01pm
so i take it in response to the question "was it good for you" that would be a "yes, oh god yes!!!!!!!!"
Submitted by -it- on Sat, 10/25/2008 - 3:13pm
well this is their first oil emmersion build, maybe within a year or so they will be able to do with out proprietary parts.
Bus to Cynicsville
Submitted by BroadSide on Sat, 10/25/2008 - 10:49am
I'm on the bus to Cynicsville with this one. Absolutely beautiful rig that deserves to win 'Rig of the Month" and then some but is going to have a hard time finding a lucrative market as a mass produced computer. No enthusiast in their right mind is going to buy this even at the bargain price of $4000. Propriatory parts, a mess like a bomb in a chippy everytime you pop the case and perhaps no significant gain in performance over other high end cooling systems???....Who is this rig aimed at? Lottery winners and other assorted rich and shameless who don't really care about what's inside but really dig the cool lava lamp effect. Congrats on getting all those investors to part with their cash so you could build your dream rig. Shmoozing ability worthy of a presidential candidate.
Submitted by AlaskaDrew on Sat, 10/25/2008 - 1:55am
Its a neat idea and conversation piece but a big part of my passion for PCs is being able to build it myself and upgrade parts on a regular basis. I want to see if this thing really performs so much better that its worth dunking your computer parts in oil. To me this looks like a beautiful pain in the ass. I feel like an artist looking at someone else's painting. It's beautiful, but I want to paint my own paintings. Its the after without the before and during man!
Submitted by billysundays on Thu, 10/23/2008 - 7:08pm
I gotta admit this must be the most beautiful rig I've ever seen. I keep visiting this article just to look at the pics (who's the photographer Gordon). The level of proprietar-ity(?) might be alarming, but its use here is also inspiring. I mean when I'm thinking up of ingenius PC modding fantasies schemes, I never consider "Well what if I could make a redesigned, custom motherboard, and commission Creative Labs to help me". Actually I do, but i never take myself seriously. I also like to imagine what we might see in the future if the company miraculously succeeds.
- I would like to see a version, based on their current design, that would be designed to be place with the side window facing the room, like an aquarium, to focus on its aesthetics. For example, the components that are usually placed on the front of a traditional PC case, like the front inputs and optical drives, would instead be located above and/or below the "side" window (which would in this case be considered the front window). Imagine one of those LCD readout displays completing the look.
Also, how about implementing an External PCI-E solution that would give users the ability to install add-in cards in a seperate section of the case that's not submersed. That seems like a no brainer.
- You know what, I take back what I said before about featuring this on the cover of MaxPC. It should totally be on the cover. Sure, its best to be wary of the company's future success, but this PC speaks directly to our passion for our hobby, not our consumerism, and the photographs do it justice, and its an exclusive! My head has been swelling with ideas inspired by this article. I'm surprised there aren't more posts.
(sorry for the bullet points, its the only way to make paragraphs since posts are acting funky)
Submitted by gordonung on Tue, 10/28/2008 - 2:08pm
Our chief photographer: Mark Madeo. I'll pass along the kind words.
Yes, I agree, I do think that a way to add additional cards or external I/O would be a good idea.
Submitted by billysundays on Tue, 10/28/2008 - 4:34pm
I meant specifically the "External PCI-E" specification, also known as "Cabled PCI Express". I don't understand why its never utilized, and an oil submersed PC seems like the perfect excuse for why PCI-SIG created the specs, to allow more flexibilty in PC designs.
Finally a system worth the high price tag.
Submitted by Smiling Cat on Fri, 10/24/2008 - 9:50pm
I really like how they went the extra mile in almost every regard to give you something that actually justifies the huge price tag. It's always annoyed me that high end builders charged you two or three times more for something you can put together yourself.
The whole package looks incedible, and the features packed in every nook and cranny is well done. The design is so well though out that it borders that laptop area. Difficult or impossible to change some things once you get it although with the hardware it should last a couple years.
Submitted by Russianblue on Fri, 10/24/2008 - 11:09am
i like the suggestion about the aquarium type display. they should also put a few little plastic fish, or round balls in it with a UV light....which would "swim" in the pumped oil!
Submitted by billysundays on Fri, 10/24/2008 - 4:01pm
Exactly, where's the faux kelp, the little diver man, or at least a bubble maker. They sure are gonna be embarressed with themselves when read our suggestions.
Submitted by guiri on Fri, 10/31/2008 - 8:26pm
Man, I would love to have this in a real aquarium with fish and stuff around it. That would be soo cool and yes, it absolutely deserves to be on the cover
Submitted by billysundays on Thu, 10/23/2008 - 6:47pm
-
mmmm....
Submitted by Electron_Star on Thu, 10/23/2008 - 2:39pm
Just don't keep it on too long, or else the RAM sticks will look more like french fries.
Horrible Idea!
Submitted by WindowsXP on Thu, 10/23/2008 - 5:09pm
We can use that oil to fuel our cars MPC! Come on now!
:p
Lovely article, keep up the good work.
Staff photographer!
Submitted by Number Six on Thu, 10/23/2008 - 5:47am
The photographs in this feature are stunning. Great work.
Submitted by billysundays on Wed, 10/22/2008 - 5:59pm
Hey, has anyone in the MaxPC staff noticed that the paragraphs in posted comments aren't breaking? Appreciate the new listing of allowed HTML tags though.
Submitted by OilPC on Wed, 10/22/2008 - 3:09pm
As Kaldor said, It has been done by Puget Systems and Toms Hardware.
http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/strip-fans,1203.html
However, as far as I know, There are probably more than 100 (or 1000) people who have tried this kind of cooling already around the world, and I am one of them. I also built my first mineral oil cooling system with radiator cooling in late 2006. You can check it out at the link below.
What I'm trying to say is that no matter how many people out there have built a system like this, this is the best looking and fully functional system out there. I have to say that this system made a mark as a first commercially available oil cooling system in the world.
Also, for the patent, it doesn't really matter who tried to build this kind of system first, but who filed a patent first.
Submitted by rriffenburg on Wed, 10/22/2008 - 12:37pm
Many years ago IBM had an oil cooled core memory in one of its' products. It was a bitch to maintain.
It fascinates me how
Submitted by jwalch.hawk on Wed, 10/22/2008 - 11:46am
It fascinates me how everyone seems to think that the since Hardcore was not the first to do this that the patent isn't legitimate...
Clearly you all underestimate just how broken the US patent system is.
That said, I'm glad that at least in this case everyone is fully aware that independent PC modders have been doing this for years... At least the right group is getting credited with the actual innovation that way. Arguing which modder did it first is mostly semantics, and it's the sort of thing that several people could develop in parallel (ie, person A could very well have done it at basically the same time as person B without necessarily having gotten the idea from magazine C).
At 4k, this is really cool because it brings the machine to a lot of people that couldn't afford something more exhorbitant and aren't crazy enough modders to do it themselves on a cheaper machine. I know a little bit of the whole nerd mentality thing is that we like to keep some of our cool stuff as a sort of trade secret, but I have high hopes for this being a pretty popular item.
Submitted by pcwizmtl on Wed, 10/22/2008 - 7:28am
I agree with Talcum X, proprietary = bad, and also waiting like 4 hours for my oil to drain and dry to upgrade my system is not sexy at all.
Still very cool PC btw, but, you know...
Submitted by BrookV on Wed, 10/22/2008 - 6:48am
This is SICK! (In the good sense of the word)
I'd imagine changing components would be a messy task. And once you dip those components, I'd imagine your warranty would be null and void.
Think of the phone call to tech support:
ring ring...
Tech support: Hello, Nvidia tech support. How can I help you?
User: Hi, my video card is not working.
Tech support: ..hmm, could you take it out and reseat it?
User: ...well, I'd rather not. I dont want to get all the oil it is soaked in on my moms carpet. ...
'audible click'
User:...hello? ...um..hello?
But then again if you have $4 grand to throw away on a system like this, WHO CARES ABOUT WARRANTIES! Haha!
Submitted by BrainEater on Wed, 10/22/2008 - 6:38am
Sweet rig !
---------
I have some serious questions about that patent.
My Thinktank submersion computer was published on the [H]forums on 08/31/2004.....and a picture of it was published in the book "PC Modding for dummies" in feb of 2005..
/me investigates
=)
A new job
Submitted by TD-Linux on Tue, 10/21/2008 - 2:35pm
Whoa! I just realized that these computers are manufactured in my home town of Rochester, Minnesota!
I think I just found myself a new summer job.
Submitted by flameo993 on Tue, 10/21/2008 - 1:29pm
I would totally get this if I only had $4000 laying around somewhere. My only problem would be knowing what I can stick in there and what I can't, cuz I like to upgrade part by part
Proprietary = Bad
Submitted by Talcum X on Tue, 10/21/2008 - 7:44am
Even though the case is cool and the innovation to make it all work seems cool, the "customness" of the parts isn't. Should have designed the case to accepte industry standard parts Might have been cheeper to do that with small adapters to take those parts instead of having vendors make them spacifically for this rig. Then the upgradablility is there, open to anyone, as it should be. But, Ive asked this before, why not use this oil in your liquid cooling setup instead of conductive water. At least it would be liquid cooling without the conserns that come with it. The case is really cool and inovative though. Some sacrifices with the slim drives as they are not performance, but the SSDs are...so maybe a tradeoff.
***********
Every morning is the dawn of a new error.
"In Ireland, there are more drunks per capita than people." - Peter Griffin
Submitted by Kaldor on Tue, 10/21/2008 - 7:10am
Dont quite understand how they got a patent for this. Puget Systems and Toms Hardware did this years ago.
Heres the link to the Puget Systems machine, which has been running for over 18 months IIRC.
http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php
Quite possibly one of the coolest projects Ive seen to date.
Submitted by kottmgrr on Tue, 10/21/2008 - 10:33am
Sure people have done it before. However, Puget's tank was also built a year after these guys filed for thier patent in 2006.
Submitted by Spider-Mom on Mon, 10/20/2008 - 4:32pm
Other unconventional methods of cooling can alreadu cool a cpu and other parts past its fail point. Eventually when you over clock a CPU to a certine point heat is no longer the issue preventing it from going any further. And no amount of extra cooling past that point will help. Other methods of cooling can already do this. If this is easyer or cheaper than those options then it a good option. But I dont think your ever going to get a CPU as cold with oil as you are with phase change.
Also, ive heard that some times when people do this they find out that imperfections in radom parts can cause problems with the hardware. The bigger problem seems to be that adding more complicaation to the desine adds more chanse of failuire under submersion. The hi end 8 layer mother boards you want for over clocking fit that discription.
One problem ive seen more than once is that flaws in a PCB will allow and oil to saturate it under hier temps. Thats bad FYI.
What I cant say is that this isnt cool and that I dont want to try it. Also idiot friends who come over and maybe even gurls will think its coolto have a bubbly computer!!!!!!
Submitted by Ian Ashdown on Mon, 10/20/2008 - 2:52pm
What happened to the synjet coolers? Check out their Web site -- they are being used in next-generation solid-state lighting modules from Philips Lighting.
Submitted by Regun on Mon, 10/20/2008 - 1:51pm
I think it looks great! The concept looks solid and it looks insane.
I hope the general public pick up on it. The website is great looking also.
I'd like to have me one of those! :D
Must Read Articles
Feature
Review
Feature
Feature
Feature
Most Popular Articles
This Month's Issue
FEATURE How to Get FREE Programs, Services, Software & MoreFEATURE Digital Photo Printer RoundupHOW TOBuild a 3D CameraFEATUREDIY Arcade PCWHITE PAPERHow TRIM Works
Technology News
Computer Cooling Fans
Computer Cases
PC Game Controllers
PC Games
Computer Hardware
Headphones
MP3 Players
Stream Video
Computer Mouse
Monitors
Motherboards
NAS Storage
Networking
Laptop Computers
DVD Burner
Digital Cameras
Portable Storage
Computer Accessories
Smartphone
Antivirus Software
Sound Cards
Speakers
Computer Systems
Thumb Drives
Video Cameras
Video Card Reviews
Water Cooling
Gadgets
- Keyboards
© 2009 Future US, Inc. All Rights Reserved.