Everything You Need to Know about Nvidia’s 3D Goggle Gamble
Posted 09/16/08 at 03:54:37 PM by Norman Chan
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Q: Can you talk about the shutter glasses hardware that NVIDIA is working on and planning to bring to market? Release date and price range?
AF: These glasses are a new design from NVIDIA: they operate wirelessly to an IR transmitter that connects to the back of your PC via USB. They have a rechargeable battery that lasts about 40 hours on a single charge, and they turn off after 10 minutes of non-use to save battery charge. A small indicator light will blink red when the battery needs to be recharged. Simply connect it to the (included) USB cable to recharge.
We expect to release the glasses in a package with the emitter by the end of this year. The retail price hasn’t been set yet.
Q: Is NVIDIA working with any publishers or developers to promote 3D stereoscopic technology?
AF: Absolutely. We have shown the glasses to the majority of PC game publishers and developers. They love the effect, and they like the fact that they don’t need to do anything special to support it. Most developers just say “When can I get one?” That being said, game developers can always work with us to ensure that game is optimized out of the box and delivers an even more immersive experience.
Q: Is this a technology that’s being targeted for the living room or more for desktop gaming?
AF: That’s a good question. From our standpoint, we’ll feel we succeeded if users can have a great 3D experience at their PC or in the living room. It probably depends on the room and the monitor, because we’ve noticed that people like to be fairly close to the ViewSonic 22-inch desktop LCD, and they like to be about 8 feet away from the Mitsubishi 73-inch Diamond Vision DLP.
Q: What are some other applications of 3D stereoscopic tech outside of games?
AF: Simulations are an obvious area of great potential. At NVISION an engineer told us how he developed astronaut training simulations for NASA which cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and produced a similar effect. Good stereoscopic 3D technology can be used for training pilots, doctors, technicians, and soldiers.
One of the other areas we are looking at for consumers is that wide array of 3D applications are out, such as Google Earth, Piclens, and Microsoft Photosynth. All of these applications utilize the processing power of a GPU to render their effects in 3D. Since our GPU can access that data, we can create a stereoscopic view of it and completely immerse you in it.
Home movies are also moving towards 3D. Consumers are eager to enjoy high-fidelity, immersive experiences in their home after experiencing it in the theater. If they can have immersive experiences at an affordable price, you’ll see nothing but smiles under those 3D glasses. 3D movies for the home is not quite ready yet, but we are working with the industry to help enable a new standard for the home.
We also chatted with Duane Brozek of Viewsonic to get a panel-maker’s perspective of 3D Stereoscopic tech.
Q: What technologies do display panels need to have for 3D to be supported?
Duane Brozek: There are currently several types of 3D technologies available in the market. The two most common types being Stereoscopic with active shutter glasses, and Autostereoscopic type without glasses. The Autostereoscopic technologies include Barrier Type, Directional BLU, and Lenticular type LCD panels.
ViewSonic feels that clearly the best available solution in terms of performance, manufacturing complexity, and cost is the Stereoscopic technology which we recently announced in conjunction with NVIDIA. In terms of panel design, the only requirements are the ability to run in native mode with 120 Hz data content input, and the ability to support a fast gray-to-gray response time in less than 1/120 of a frame (this equates to a gray-to-gray response time below 8ms).
While Autostereoscopic technologies are improving, they are panel structure dependent and have a high cost of manufacturing and software development. Additionally, they can demonstrate a number of limitations in terms of performance criteria such as brightness, resolution, and viewing position. We don’t believe that a good quality stereoscopic technology without glasses is cost effective either now or in the foreseeable future.
Q: Are there additional benefits to 120 Hz LCD panels?
DB: There are three additional benefits of 120 Hz LCD technology for consumers:
- enables full resolution stereoscopic viewing with active shutter glasses technology.
- enables a wider viewing angle than current autostereoscopic solutions with active shutter glasses.
- 120 Hz LCDs are also terrific for gamers when not playing stereoscopic 3D games, because the higher refresh rate means you can display more frames per second running on NVIDIA GeForce GPUs.
Q: How much more expensive will 3D-supported panels cost over regular displays?
DB: Depending on the type of 3D implementation chosen, the additional cost on the monitor side could range anywhere from $100 to well over a thousand dollars. ViewSonic is targeting to launch our first “pure” 120Hz / 3D desktop product at an end user price range reflecting a premium at the lower end of that scale. For the performance improvement we will deliver, we believe that gamers, graphics professionals and enthusiasts will be excited to put one on their desktop. The Controller and Glasses will be sold separately.
Q: What kind of market penetration and adoption rate do you expect for 3D-capable panels in the next couple years? What will be the biggest determining factor for consumers to get on board with this tech?
DB: We believe that 3D-capable LCD monitors will certainly be one of the fastest growing segments over the next several years. We are essentially starting from a base of zero though, and do not expect to see market share greater than 5 percent within the period. However, the products that we introduce now will be laying the groundwork for the next generation of 3D displays, and providing a framework for the continued development of new 3D content. These new “pure 120Hz” monitors not only provide a crisp, blur-free 2D experience for a myriad of consumer and business applications, but also a truly immersive gaming experience that we believe will revolutionize the desktop and generate considerable demand and sales.
Please fix the title...
Submitted by Colecoman1982 on Thu, 11/06/2008 - 11:18am
No, this is not, exactly, "Everything" I need to know about the product. Right off the bat, they don't tell us what it will cost (not even a general target). I understand that they haven't figured that out yet, but the title of the story sets a high bar.
More importantly, they dance around the issue of what monitors this will work with. I understand that it is in their best interest to push us into buying all new equipment, especially if you're talking to Veiwsonic reps, but there are plenty of monitors already sitting on peoples' desks which have sub-8ms gtg values (including mine) . What would bring me very close to knowing "everything" I need to know about the new nVidia shutter glasses is a clear answer whether or not my new 27.5" Hannspree monitor, with a rated value of 3ms gtg, will work.
If they could get around to answering both of those questions in a prompt manner then they'll, almost certainly, have locked, not only a shutter glass sale from me, but also a new top-end video card sale.
Submitted by Data-Cain on Wed, 11/19/2008 - 8:43pm
Eh I can't wait! But I'll have to buy a new TV.. d'oh.
And yar it's not 'everything' as the title suggests, but oh well.
As for you're gear;
sub 8ms GTG does not mean your screen is capable of displaying acceptable stereoscopic goodness!
I assume faster gtg would improve the stereoscopic quality though (less ghosting etc).The Refresh rate is the limiting factor of most current Screens, since most desktop and TV's are 60hz.
The glasses 'block' one eye at a time - switching rapidly between eyes to block the wrong view angle being seen from the wrong eye. So essentialy you are cutting the reresh rate in half - the whole "left eye see frames 1,3,5, right eye see frames 2,4,6" bit.So unless you have a 100hz (50hz per eye should be acceptable) or higher (120hz would be my prefered minimum to use) capable screen they you will need a new one.
The cost? I can't say what they are gonna do.
But shutter glasses that are currently on the market start from around 80$ AUD (maybe less now) upto 150?
or go for some Goggles which have been available that I've seeon from as low as 500$ AUD upto thousands
Unfortunatly as mentioned above your other equipment has to support the requirments as well.The experience... I think it's awesome.
There is a fairly easy way to get a taste of what it's like with out owning any special gear.(works for most people, but not all)...
First be warned that I find this technique good for a quick taste only, more than 30seconds or so can make you feel sick or strain your eyes (it's alot harder on your eyes/brain than using the googles)
Anyway, First you need to find a stereoscopic image - then use the 'cross-eyed' technique which you can find on google.I spent a bit of money on a big CRT monitor with high refresh, shutter glasses, a fast PC etc so I could play games in 'real 3d' and it was worth it... when it worked. I found that games that worked correctly were awesome, some better than others.
World of Warcraft was awesome.
Some shooters were amazing, while some were pretty average.
GTA San Andreas was sweet :D
Unfortunaly back then drivers were limiting at times and caused me issues.Sideffects people complain about?
You do have to take it slow and get use to the seperation and convergence settings - which as it said in the article they have been looking at.
Most people have no idea about these settings and just complain about headaches, eye strain and it makes them sick...
If you start off with almost none and build your way up over a month of so you can use higher settings with out the side effects.Anyway, I just wish people would stop dismissing it so easily when everyone I know that I showed stereoscopic images and games to with the correct settings for them (being new to it) all loved it.
Submitted by Mathewpb on Thu, 09/25/2008 - 4:40pm
lol vegan....true...I think that this is a step in the right direction. To me it seems that Nvidia is determined to stick to this tech and see it through...yes it might seem a little costly and everything to everyone...but what did everyone do when directX came out? Buy new stuff when they didnt know what a hue problem it would be. But look at directX 10 and vista now.. they both work fine with me and i wouldnt go back to XP. But i think this is a commitment Nvidia has made to make this work.
It's one thing to create
Submitted by sirphunkee on Fri, 09/19/2008 - 5:43pm
It's one thing to create technology that functions as it "should" (finally), but another thing entirely to integrate it in such a way as to actually improve the experience of a game that's already good on it's own merits.
When/if that ever happens is when the dollars will come out of my pocket.
Unless it works on my current setup...
Submitted by Shilar on Wed, 09/17/2008 - 11:41pm
Personally I'm glad for Nvidia. However I won't run out and buy a 3d card to support this, a new monitor, a new LCD TV.... heck maybe a new computer just to support it. As much as I'd LOVE to see 3D make a comeback (expecially 3D video, so we can get the 80's 3D movies out on DVD), I'm not willing to buy a new setup for it, and neither are the others in the majority. Take a lesson from Blu-ray, develop a low-cost alternative that works with the current setup (like a 7x+ GeForce and a regular LCD/HDTV).
Submitted by AndroGalaxy on Wed, 09/17/2008 - 1:48pm
This is interesting. I had the opportunity when I was working on my Master's to work with a combination of LCD Shutter goggles with a haptic display. I was very impressed with that system. It seems reasonable that even better systems should be available now.
I am very disappointed that the system requires klutzy, failed-product, Windows Vista. MOST GAMERS, myself included, absoulutely will not go near Windows Vista for gaming. Nvidia needs to develop the product primarily for Windows XP. They also need to support all LCD displays, not some special, over-priced, 120-Hz model.
Nvidia should work on getting their product to be compatible with Linden Lab's Second Life, which relies heavily on opengl, as well as DirectX, together.
Submitted by sdcat on Wed, 09/17/2008 - 11:31am
6 years ago I bought the 3D glasses used on nvidia drivers with CRT monitor. It was nice, I used it on my racing games all the time for at least a year(can't remember when I quit). I could see the game in 3D poping up from monitor. The most impression I had was I could see the turns and corners when looking directly instead looking like flat surface. I rarely get any headache back than so if the tech becomes more mature I sure would like to do it again.
Submitted by ihate56k on Wed, 09/17/2008 - 9:11am
I've used shutter glasses on Nvidia for years, with CRT's and projector.
I've used anaglyph on TFT
I have a HMD which functions the same as shutter glasses.
N-VIDIA intentionally disabled support for all the above over version 91.31 for all devices except the TFT they recieved funding from. however by breaking a video cable pin to stop the driver being able to detect the monitor, they are useable again (and work fine on the geforce 7xxx series)
They are now reselling this technology, as their own, even though 120hz shutterglasses have been available for a decade, and most good CRT's were capable of this. but guess what... now XP doesn't support it, even though it had done in the past, And it sounds like Anaglyph and non nvidia-approved shutterglasses are getting the boot too..
most of the stereoscopic community have given up on nvidia (the've not released a viable stereoscopic driver for 3 years) and are pinning their hopes on iz3d to add back what nvidia intentionally broke
It's Marketing-tastic!!
Submitted by Wildebeast on Wed, 09/17/2008 - 8:27am
Q: How does the current generation of stereoscopic 3D tech differ from what gamers saw 5 years ago?
A: The Marketing and Legal departments allow me to state unequivically:"Now with turbonium! Also, Green is the new Orange..."
I just can't believe this B.S. is newsworthy.
No doubt it works better. With incremental hardware upgrades (including the monitor) and new drivers, it would. Since people were still getting headaches, last I'd heard, wouldn't it have to??
OTW, it'd basically be vaporware. I really don't see anything new here, but the broader compatibility and support to go with the larger resolutions. It seems to be more about "wouldn't it be great, if this works like you'd hope?"
Get back to me, when you've used them for 30 days.
Submitted by Vegan on Tue, 09/16/2008 - 4:24pm
"the HUD controls popped out of the screen, making us feel like we were looking through a window onto the battlefield."
That doesn't sound very realistic. Are there soldiers out there carrying around windows that I don't know about?
Submitted by strykyr on Tue, 09/16/2008 - 2:54pm
I'd pay $500 for a 22 inch and the controller and glasses. With HDMI. No 9 pin, no s-video and for pete's sake...NO SPEAKERS.
Submitted by murixbob on Tue, 09/16/2008 - 1:29pm
I think its great that 3d was come this far, however most people are not gonna shell out the extra cash for the 120hz monitor and the glasses. Offering them in a bundle might help though. I would love to try it though.
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