AMD Provides Performance Figures for Thief's Mantle Patch

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Rollin489

why is the r9 290x starting out only getting 1 more fps than the 280x before the mantle update. Doesn't that seem a little off. I would have assumed that both those cards would have better performance than that even without mantle

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zjwflippers1996

It's limited by the bottleneck of a CPU, I'm sure.

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AFDozerman

Hmm. That IS odd. My guess would be that it's CPU bottlenecked and Mantle alleviating that shifts the weight over to the GPU, causing the disparity in the "after" numbers.

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LatiosXT

And if that's the case, it's still bad PR on AMD's part. It basically tells me Intel's CPUs can adequately feed a GPU and AMD's own parts can't.

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vrmlbasic

TomsHardware benchmark shows that the i7 is beaten by the 8350 when both are using Mantle and the same GPU.

That's an interesting turn of events.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thief-mantle-benchmarks,3773.html

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LatiosXT

Uh...

Those graphs show me that the i7 on average beats the 8350. It's only when the preset goes up a bit does the 8350 win out on minimum frame rates

But the difference is so small with or without Mantle that it's still nothing to write home about.

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vrmlbasic

Minimum framerate is what matters most.

While the article isn't conclusive, it does put a damper on your "AMD can't but Intel can" claim. The 8350, with its lower "per core" performance and the lack of game engines aware of its architecture, seems to have always lagged behind the might of the i7. Mantle propelling it ahead of the more costly, ostensibly more powerful chip is notable, especially when it is in the more significant stat.

On a tangent, the saddest part about all this is that Thief runs so poorly on modern hardware even though its graphics are far from awe-inspiring.

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LatiosXT

That's like saying the guy who took the slowest corner in a race the fastest is better. Never mind he got second place.

The thing is, minimum frame rate to me means nothing. There's no real criteria other than it just dropped that low. There are plenty of games that I play that can dip into 20FPS but comes out to an average of 60FPS+ and often times when I do see it dipped that low, I ask "when did it do that?". Average frame rate means over time the system was faster.

Also please tell me master software engineer, how do you optimize software to take advantage of AMD's processors if these companies can't do it?

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maleficarus™

+ 1 !!!!

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LatiosXT

What I don't like is there's no real common ground. They should've paired all the systems with an R9 290X to represent the maximum graphics potential you could throw in with all settings at maximum (or some common setting). If Mantle is meant to lessen the CPU bottleneck, then ensuring that you GPU isn't bottlenecking the system as much as possible too is a must.

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Bdiddytampa

Funny how the system with the Intel chip has the worst gains... I'm gonna wait for some independent testing, companies bench-marking their own hardware always ticks one of my "unsure" boxes...

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AFDozerman

That is to be expected. Mantle -in its current form- doesn't magically just make games run faster, it makes the CPU code more efficient. For that reason, if you have a GPU limited system already, you're only going to get performance gains in the single digits and related to the more efficiently written drivers and such.

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Innomasta

Once again, Mantle does what it set out to do.

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maleficarus™

Which is pretty much nothing to the majority of gamers that have current mid-to-high end hardware. I do not consider 5% anything more then what you get with new drivers for NVIDIA. As for this true audio stuff. Sounds nothing more then EAX from years ago.

Nothing to be excited about really, but then again AMD fans always get excited when they get better performance from there cards right?

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Xenite

Aww poor lil Nvidia fanboy...

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Innomasta

You do realize the majority of gamers are running on lower end setups right? True, this API does next to nothing for you or I, but this is a measurable help to those with outdated hardware.

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LatiosXT

>"...but this is a measurable help to those with outdated hardware."
Except Mantle is only compatible with GCN based hardware... which is the HD 7000 series or later. So much for that.

But I guess if the rest of the system is 5+ years old then sure.

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Innomasta

Good catch.

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maleficarus™

Anyone playing 2013/2014 games have mid-end hardware. And if they don't then they should not be playing the games in the first place! AMD is trying to take a square and forcing it into a round hole. I give them props for doing this but at the end of the day it is all just smoke and mirrors....

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Paul_Lilly

One thing I probably should have included in the article is that Mantle is still in beta. Here's part of what AMD had to say about it in the email they sent:

"Bringing a new graphics API from a concept on paper to a workable solution in just over two years is a Herculean undertaking of which we are very proud. But we developers are also still learning the nature of our API as we grow its capabilities, apply it to new games and engines, and tackle new rendering scenarios."

I'm not blown away by Mantle at this early stage, nor do I think there's reason enough for Nvidia to sweat bullets, but I do think there's some potential here. System 2, for example, showed a 49 percent bump in performance. Sure it was already playable, but that's an impressive boost nonetheless.

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Innomasta

Agreed